If you think mn is strongly transphobic....

[midgebabe]

I find it very unfair to be accused of transphobia when I am not actually worried about trans people as such. I am worried about how bad men might abuse legislative changes . I am worried about giving bad men more opportunities . About how people might be able to pretend to be trans. I suspect this is a threat to both biological women and trans women.

and teh british association of gender identity specialists

"“… the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naively suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this.”"

Also the above individual was living in a women's bail hostel when he carried out a violent attempted rape on a woman. Do you think we are just making stuff up for fun? This shit is already happening.

I think one of the issues is that most people genuinely believe the same as Rumpledfaceskin

I.e that such a thing could not possibly happen. But it already is.

Men sneak into women's toilets to harass or plant cameras as it is, without needing to claim to be trans, so why would they bother pretending they are trans?
Also whenever people start policing who "looks like a woman", the way largest number of people affected are cis women who happen to look butch or masculine or just who pissed off the person claiming to be offended by their presence.

One of the most interesting things about the way the laws are written is the Orwellian bit where the transgender identified person chooses which facilities they wish to use because "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Transwomen want in to women's spaces for two reasons - safety, and validation that they are women.

The huge elephant in the room being that people are having a go at women for being transphobic by not wanting transwomen in their spaces, and completely ignoring the fact that if men's spaces aren't safe for transwomen, then the transphobic ones are clearly the men - and rather than just being upset and uncomfortable like the women, these transphobic men who must be everywhere, want to abuse and beat transwomen.

The only real conclusion here is that 'safety' is a smokescreen for 'because I want to' which can't be justified if it means women are uncomfortable or scared by it, because it's bloody selfish.

I hope Rumpled will come back and acknowledge the reality. Being accused of hysteria over stuff that 'isn't happening' when it is actually happening is really frustrating.

Men sneak into women's toilets to harass or plant cameras as it is, without needing to claim to be trans, so why would they bother pretending they are trans?

They do you’re right. Currently though if I saw a man in the women’s toilets or the woman’s changing room in the gym I could object. I could draw attention to him. Ask him if he knew he was in the women’s.

Under the new legislation that would be transphobic and a male with a penis in a women’s changing room would have every right to be there by just saying they are trans/a woman. No sneaking required.

No pretending required.

Truscum do you think Rumplefacedskin realises what your user name signifies?

I don’t think Rumplefacedskin realises Bron

What are "individual specific enforcement measures"?

Is this another thing that women will have to "keep themselves safe" from?

Always going to toilet in packs, scanning for bugs and cameras like James Bond? Will we all be issues with bug locating technology in the shape of a lipstick?

At the moment if there is a man fuckigng about in the toilets all the women go OH LOOK THERE'S A MAN FUCKING ABOUT IN THE TOILETS.

The ones I have seen have mostly been where men were allowed to be there, unisex toilets in smaller premises, unisex changing facilities, so they can get around with no suspicion on them.

This idea that men will be voyeuristic and creepy and rapey anyway so let's let them go anywhere they want where women and girls are doing is nuts, I don't understand how people can't see that.

If you tell 100 men that if they go to the gym at 3pm then the communal changing room will have the under 15s girls volleyball team changing then oooh what's going to happen I wonder.

I don’t agree with self ID, never have, never will. I just find the whole online hurling shit and insults at each other pointless, tiring and wish people wouldn’t even engage with it. The core message gets lost in all the other noise. Threads about how Lilly someone or other had banned you from twitter do just sound pathetic and ultimately transphobic. I don’t believe that’s a good way to campaign for womens rights.

No I have no idea what terfs, or any other terms other than trans means I’m afraid. It all strikes me as childish name calling.

I think that pointing out that a number of high profile trans spokespeople have a history of things like violence, rape, misogyny, etc, is highly pertinent.

Lily was a teen MRA who badgered the race for life over why they didn't let men run, and compared them to racists for it. Are we supposed to ignore this stuff?

Literally one of the most transphobic places on the internet. It's renowned for it, sadly

Absolute rubbish. If you really believe this, then you have 'literally' not spent any time acquainting yourself with the rest of the internet.

Probably not BronwenFrideswide.

Most ‘allies’ don’t really understand the slur or even know it’s being used to silence the ‘old school’ transsexuals.

If believing that woman = adult female human makes me transphobic, then so be it.

Trouble is, phobic means suffering from an irrational fear of something. I don't fear trans-identifying people, and my feelings about them are not irrational. Therefore, by definition I am not transphobic.

Definitions, clear, rational, accepted definitions. Something distinctly lacking in the ideological rhetoric currently being shouted everywhere.

I don’t believe that’s a good way to campaign for womens rights.

What is your suggestion then?

If someone's views as evidenced by their communications seem to make them ineligible for the office they hold, it is normal to raise it.

Or do you think that people should not have mentioned Toby Young's history of misogyny and vile comments about people less well off than him, when he got his post recently around schools?

"Literally one of the most transphobic places on the internet. It's renowned for it, sadly"

Also one of the only places on the internet for the UK where large numbers of women meet and "talk" largely free from men.

And oh what a surprise the prevailing view is that this stuff is terrible for women's rights.

Loads of groups hate MN. Women discussing things without men to keep them in line has always been considered a bit dodgy.

That 'Lilly someone' is a male individual who has a history of misogyny, making rape jokes and has today asserted his intention to volunteer for women's aid.

Has someone mentioned Jessica Winfield the rapist in a woman's prison yet? I#m trying to deal with dinner so struggling to keep up.