Irish referendum - abortion - should men vote?

[Schtinkay]

Fabulous news. Finally a referendum in Ireland to decriminalise abortion. About bloody time.

But should men be allowed to vote on an issue that is about controlling rights, freedoms and bodies of women?

I don't think so. Very interested in thoughts.

And I think it is fucking ridiculous that in a situation where men rape and murder women you say it is women who are dividing us. FFS.

"Feminism has gone too far" God I love it when people trot out that old chestnut.

I think in order to have legitimacy everyone must vote. Otherwise one could equally argue that pro-life women shouldn't be allowed a vote because the outcome will never affect them - ie even if abortion were legal, they would never choose to have one.

men see women's rights not as a natural entitlement but as something bestowed by men upon women, something that can be taken away at any point.

I don't know what men you've been talking to but I really don't think you can generalise and say that all men think like this. I don't know any who do, apart from those nutters on Return of Kings.

I don't think telling me to fuck off is really ok existential! thats what odfod means isn't it.

Anyway. I specifically referred to this country that I am in. England. Plenty of countries oppress women still in a multitude of ways but suggesting England does it is what I mean by gone too far. It's bull.

On a thread about women still not having access to abortion, you think feminism has gone too far?

Well said. Utterly ridiculous comment, especially on a thread like this.

I think in order to have legitimacy everyone must vote.

Absolutely. Otherwise infertile or post-menopausal women could just as easily be excluded.

Feminisim gone to far is basically saying shush now dear 😕

The thread isn't about England. And I don't think telling a GF to FO is a problem. Your point is inane, insulting, and obviously 100% wrong.

Morally I don't think men should be allowed to vote on this. But I can see why it is important constitutionally. Maybe a better question would be one that also affects men. Should all adults have control over what is inside their own bodies? Type of thing.

'I don't know what men you've been talking to but I really don't think you can generalise and say that all men think like this. I don't know any who do, apart from those nutters on Return of Kings.'

Ask any man you like how they would feel about having to stick to a curfew in order to prevent women being raped. See what sort of reaction you get.

Men at no point want any restrictions placed on them. But they are happy for women to be restricted.

2 years ago I'd have wondered what the fuss was all about.

Alot of this stuff is still way over my head in desperately trying to make myself think harder and harder about things.

Mn has brought so much to my attention and I'm so thankful if not a tad pissed off o didn't spot it myself.

But even I can't see how anything has gone too far when women are still denied what should be basic rights

How has feminism gone too far in England? Have you seen the DV, rape and murder stats?

Oh and regarding the odfod phrase telling me to fuck off and calling me "dear" - David Cameron calling a female mp "dear" didn't go down too well did it? Yet you think it's ok to call me dear. Not really converting me to your feminism cause there.

Rape murder and DV are crimes. To be tackled by all of us in society. To suggest that a normal man, just because they have a penis, is part of the above group of criminals is bizarre.

*Ask any man you like how they would feel about having to stick to a curfew in order to prevent women being raped. See what sort of reaction you get.

Men at no point want any restrictions placed on them. But they are happy for women to be restricted.*

But that's rubbish. Why punish 100% of men for something that 1% do? By that logic why not lock up all of us after 9pm so less burglaries happen. Why not ban everyone from parks late at night because of heroin addicts. I don't believe in punishing everyone for the actions of a few - that is a preposterous suggestion anyway because it could never be implemented.

Also, I don't see how as a woman I'm particularly restricted in the same way - I don't have a curfew and I routinely walk home alone late at night. Men who walk down alleys can also be mugged or beaten up. It's a personal risk that everyone can choose to take or not take.

Men not wanting a curfew placed on them because of the actions of a few criminals, is a huge leap to saying "men want all womens rights taken away".

I'm so sick of people claiming women in the West have nothing to complain about.

There are still women in England who cant get an abortion, because, for example, their doctor is a member of Life, and will obstruct any attempt for her to get one on the NHS.

'Also, I don't see how as a woman I'm particularly restricted in the same way - I don't have a curfew and I routinely walk home alone late at night. Men who walk down alleys can also be mugged or beaten up. It's a personal risk that everyone can choose to take or not take'

So am I just imagining all these posters telling women not to get cabs, not to walk home alone, not get drunk? www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/we-asked-an-expert-what-was-wrong-with-these-anti-rape-poste?utm_term=.ahdAD13yeA#.ekXqlEK60q

Yes crimes committed disproportionately by men against women, at least in cases of DV and rape. Along with 2 women a week murdered by their partner or ex. You don't think that is a feminist issue?

Yes, being drunk/alone late at night heightens anyone's risk of being assaulted (male or female), but these posters are just suggestions - not the actual law. I still don't see anyone's rights being taken away.

I fully agree that men shouldn't decide what women can do with their bodies and there's certainly an argument that they shouldn't get a vote but I think it's absurd to suggest it affects them in no way whatsoever.

Men are born and were carried by their mothers and having just watched my brother suffer the devastation of his gf aborting their planned baby against his will I assure you, they can be affected.
I still believe it was her choice and it's right that she made the decision that was right for her but to say no man is ever effected by abortions is silly. There are other examples too, fathers and hcp all might be affected

Where are all the posters telling men not to get drunk/walk alone late at night NameChange?

'Men are born and were carried by their mothers and having just watched my brother suffer the devastation of his gf aborting their planned baby against his will I assure you, they can be affected.
I still believe it was her choice and it's right that she made the decision that was right for her but to say no man is ever effected by abortions is silly. There are other examples too, fathers and hcp all might be affected'

You're totally contradicting yourself here. Yes men are affected but, as you say, men don't have a right to dictate what happens.

Me and a friend walked home together for safety and were assaulted by 4 men.
It shouldn't be a risk to walk along the street..

Do you think it is pure coincidence that men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators and women the victims? That there isn't a pattern of male violence in our society? And men are only responsible for over 90+% of sexual violence because the definition of rape requires a penis?

NameChange, my point about the posters is that when men rape women the response is to tell women to change their behaviour, not men. Because men never expect to have to change what they do, they expect women to change, because women never have the complete entitlement that men do.