Irish referendum - abortion - should men vote?

[Schtinkay]

Fabulous news. Finally a referendum in Ireland to decriminalise abortion. About bloody time.

But should men be allowed to vote on an issue that is about controlling rights, freedoms and bodies of women?

I don't think so. Very interested in thoughts.

My heart says no. But logically yes, I think they should vote. Saying they shouldn't would be like denying post menopausal or infertile women the vote.

But I agree that this sort of thing shouldn't be put to referendum.

It's not the same as excluding post-menopausal women or infertile women. Men can never get pregnant and want an abortion, ever. The chances of a post-menopausal woman or an infertile woman wanting an abortion are very very slim but not impossible in the same way.

Yes I think they should vote. It affects them as well.

When it comes to same sex marriage, there's not actually a requirement to be homosexual is there? I could marry a woman if I wanted

Plus, many people who are only lukewarm about SSM are so because they are anti-marriage and want to see it weakened and not strengthened as an institution.

Women's rights over their bodies shouldn't be put to referendum like this anyway

Well said!

I understand where you're coming from, but would be concerned that the legislation that would allow one sex to vote on something but not the other could be used again in very different contexts - and those contexts are unlikely to be favourable to women.

Women who are post menopausal still have insight into what being a woman of child bearing age in a country with no access to abortion is like. Many of them may have had to travel for abortions or have been forced to go through with unwanted pregnancies. Even with infertility there is a small chance of conceiving. This is an issue that affects women as a class so their age and fertility status shouldn't come into it, it isn't at all comparable to men.

Much as I appreciate your view from the feminist point of view, I disagree. I think ruling out half of the voting population from having a say in a change to the constitution would set a very dangerous precedent.

I am a woman married to a man, with no intention of changing that. Had I not already lost my Irish vote, I would have voted in the equal marriage referendum. I don't think there's a huge difference.

Women's rights over their bodies shouldn't be put to referendum like this anyway

I completely disagree with this. Every single woman in Ireland who can vote will have a direct say in this. In the UK (for example) only the women who live in areas with pro choice MP's would get a say. If they're not fortunate to live in an are where an MP would get voted in, they'd be basically voiceless.

Flavia I meant that the law should just be changed to allow women the right to choice without the need for a vote. I understand that isn't realistic so I'm glad the referendum is happening, it's just the principle of women's rights being up for vote that bothers me.

I'm glad the referendum is happening, it's just the principle of women's rights being up for vote that bothers me

Yes - the populace deciding on what a woman can and can't do with her body...

Yes - the populace deciding on what a woman can and can't do with her body...

But the alternative is a bunch of (admittedly elected) mostly men deciding anyway.

Yes it's the idea that say a 60 year old male pro lifer would have equal say over my body as me, a woman of child bearing age who has experienced significant health issues in pregnancy, that doesn't sit right with me.

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That is a good point deydo on what the alternatives are and I do also take Flavia's point that this way gives all women a voice. Does anyone know what the referendum question will be?

Yes.
But there shouldn't even be a vote, for gods sake why are women here not given an option. It's not right.

It'll be worked out by the referendum committee but it said in the Independent that it was in nearly all cases, which is positive.

Changes to the constitution have to be voted on Maud, there's no way around it.

I don't think men should vote. It's lovely to think men would stand up for their wives and daughters and sisters rights but while it's men that are mainly responsible for financially controlling women, reproductive coercion, and domestic violence, I tho k we need to give women the chance to be free of men when making this vote. It's bad enough that a vote needs to take place at all I firmly believe abortion should be available to all women without question! But if there has to he a vote it should be done by people who have a uterus and who are taking the risk with their bodies.

And yes I know there will be women who are violent towards men etc I'm not trying to trivialize what women can be capable of towards their husbands and children.

I guess it's easy to say though as I'm not Irish.. ..

My gut reaction was to say yes, as it affects them too. But what happens if men vote against abortion and women vote for it? Or vice versa. Perhaps it should just be women of child bearing age.

There are many many other principles of law was decided without women's input (either because they weren't allowed to vote or because they didn't/weren't allowed to hold political office). So if men get to vote on this it could be argued that everything women were excluded for should be up for a new vote.

The Irish constitution states that women shouldn't be compelled by economic necessity to neglect their duties within the home. That principle was put in by men who wanted their socks washed.

I think in context arguing that men shouldn't be excluded is laughable really.

I want to see the day when men's intimate bodily functions become the grounds for public debate and voting.

No I don't think men should get to vote on it.

My heart says no, but my head says, can we prevent adults from voting simply based on their sex? And if we do what are the implications for future referendums. It's only relatively recently that women were given the vote, if there was a legal option to take it away based on sex how might that play out in the future. Thinking of the handmaid's tale here tbh.

I think the struggle here is the very fact that people are being asked to vote on a medical procedure. It doesn't make any sense.

And the motive behind criminalising abortion is kept covert - the stated motive is nonsense about the right to life but the actual motive is to prevent women from having control over their own fertility (one of the main goals of the Catholic Church)