Irish referendum - abortion - should men vote?

[Schtinkay]

Fabulous news. Finally a referendum in Ireland to decriminalise abortion. About bloody time.

But should men be allowed to vote on an issue that is about controlling rights, freedoms and bodies of women?

I don't think so. Very interested in thoughts.

I don't actually agree with a referendum at all the government should grow some balls and make the decision themselves!

It's a change to the constitution. It has to be a referendum.

While the dad possesses the ability to fuck off and leave you holding the baby and lie to the csa to get out of paying for the child it has to be down to the mother.

All this "if you want..." is basically putting the decision on her anyway whilst making him look apparently supportive

I agree Giles. There's a lot of emphasis on looking after men's rights and being fair etc. How it is ever right or fair to force a woman to carry a baby for 9 months against her will?

the idea that you can vote on something that will never affect you

I'm pretty sure it would affect the future dad.

The "women's bodies" argument doesn't hold because a lot of people in Ireland believe it's not just a woman's body, it's another human life inside it.

Men are not our enemies or opponents. They are our fellow human beings. Of course they should vote. The whole point of a vote is that everyone gets to vote. I hate the way feminists are dividing society into two combatitive teams. It's why I'd never call myself a feminist. I have a boy and a girl and want them treated equally.

Whilst the final decision on abortion falls to the woman as it's her body, it's crazy to suggest it doesn't impact men. Their unborn child can be aborted without their opinion even being asked for. No physical impact on them but plenty of mental impact.

Elevenclips- I don't think anyone is saying that abortion doesn't affect men. Of course it does.

But do you think a man should be able to tell a woman whether she should or should not have an abortion?

A good question but I believe that it needs to be the whole electorate voting. As soon as you say 'only this group can vote as it only applies to them' you are opening the flood gates to exclude so many different groups for so many reasons. It's just not sustainable.

@NameChangr678, the women's body comment isn't about the unborn baby, it's that it isn't the man's body. Whether or not the pregnancy goes ahead has no effect on the man's body.

@elevenclips wouldn't it be nice if all men viewed women as fellow human beings.

'Men are not our enemies or opponents. They are our fellow human beings. Of course they should vote. The whole point of a vote is that everyone gets to vote. I hate the way feminists are dividing society into two combatitive teams. It's why I'd never call myself a feminist. I have a boy and a girl and want them treated equally.'

Do you think it is feminists who denied women the vote? Was it feminists who prevented women from being educated/working/owning property? Is it feminists who rape 85,000 women in the UK and kill two women every week.

It absolutely baffles me why women make moronic statements about feminists causing problems when it is MEN who rape, kill and maim and prevent women from participating in adult life.

the women's body comment isn't about the unborn baby, it's that it isn't the man's body. Whether or not the pregnancy goes ahead has no effect on the man's body

Also, it's a foetus, not a 'baby'.

It's a change to the constitution. It has to be a referendum

In that case I can't see how there could be a valid change to the constitution if 50% of electorate were excluded from approving the change.

I don't think anyone seriously thinks it's a possibility or that it's achievable in the given context. It was a thought about why people and men in particular are voting about women's bodies and their medical choices.

'In that case I can't see how there could be a valid change to the constitution if 50% of electorate were excluded from approving the change.'

Given that 50% of the population were excluded from drafting the constitution in the first place, surely the whole thing is null and void?

TheSparrowHawk - don't be baffled any longer. We live in 2017 and women can vote, own property and be educated just the same as men. We do not live in 1917. Times really have changed. I'm 40, had the same education and upbringing as my brother and we both have a STEM degree so I don't think women having the vote/education/property is a current issue.

Rape is a crime needing a penis so it's going to be men perpetrating it isn't it? Normal men abhor rape - they are our allies, criminal men perpetrate it and they need locking up.

Women can vote, own property and be educated because feminists pushed and pushed and pushed to make it happen - at no point did men ever want to give women any rights.

Fabulous news. Finally a referendum in Ireland to decriminalise abortion. About bloody time

Um, you do know that isn't actually what the referendum is for, yes? It's to repeal the 8th amendment to the constitution, which is not the same thing.

Do you really think the gendered nature of rape stats would actually change if the definition was altered from requiring a penis? Are there really thousands of men being forced into sex by women going unrecorded?

No way in hell. Womens bodies womens decisions.

I'm sad it still can be/has to be voted on in 2017. Abortion is a medical issue, no more. It should be a matter between a woman and her doctor.

The Irish constitution states that women shouldn't be compelled by economic necessity to neglect their duties within the home. That principle was put in by men who wanted their socks washed.

Bloody hell! I had no idea.

Yes sparrow feminists did make it happen. However like I said before things have changed and you're fighting an imaginary monster. Do you really think that women's votes are at risk of being removed in this country? The true irony is that plenty of people on this thread are advocating removing men's votes, albeit on an issue by issue basis! feminism started out well but now it's gone too far. I saw someone wearing a slogan tshirt : "the future is female". How does that pass if you invert it: "the future is male". It doesn't pass. Feminists are dividing us.

The Irish constitution states that women shouldn't be compelled by economic necessity to neglect their duties within the home. That principle was put in by men who wantedtheir socks washed

Also coming up for referendum next year, probably in october (article 42.2.1) as well as the blasphemy referendum (Article 40.6.1)

I think it should be all to vote. Who else should be excluded? Will women need to prove they're fertile as it only impacts on them?

feminism started out well but now it's gone too far
On a thread about women still not having access to abortion, you think feminism has gone too far? ODFOD.

'Do you really think that women's votes are at risk of being removed in this country?'

Yes, I do. Women are always at risk of having all of their rights removed because when it comes down to it, men see women's rights not as a natural entitlement but as something bestowed by men upon women, something that can be taken away at any point. You only have to look at the whole transgender debacle to know that that is true.