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Original poster

Irish referendum - abortion - should men vote?

398 replies

Schtinkay · 27/09/2017 09:41

Fabulous news. Finally a referendum in Ireland to decriminalise abortion. About bloody time.

But should men be allowed to vote on an issue that is about controlling rights, freedoms and bodies of women?

I don't think so. Very interested in thoughts.

OP posts:
FlaviaAlbia · 30/09/2017 11:27

Anyway, back to the thread.

I've seen support for repealing the 8th from a wide of friends on social media who wouldn't have posted about the gay marriage referendum although they would have supported it.

I've been surprised by this. Most of my social media friends are techy people I've met though work and they're from all over the country. It really seems to have a feeling of now or never about it.

existentialmoment · 30/09/2017 12:00

I wouldn't know, since they were deleted for some reason. Hmm

Elendon · 30/09/2017 12:27

That's very encouraging FlaviaAlba

I've not been able to make it over today. Please give the thread an update of how the march went existentialmoment

NoLoveofMine · 30/09/2017 13:28

Sorry for my posts on this thread. I felt unfairly attacked but appreciate others pointing out why my posts were challenged and sorry for not appreciating this. I didn't mean to dismiss the referendum and as I posted earlier that wasn't what I intended to mean with my posts. In particular sorry to existentialmoment for my most recent posts. I know I'm far less mature than other posters on here and am very much still learning. It's not the first time I've made immature posts and "messed up" so sorry and will try to think more deeply before posting.

Xenophile · 30/09/2017 15:03

The marches look like they're well attended.

As well as a human rights issue, this is an issue of class and poverty. Abortion is, to an extent, available now to women in Ireland, as long as they have the funds, language ability, residence and social wherewithal to be able to access it because it involves travelling to a foreign country (not just the UK, but also Holland) in order to access basic medical care.

However, to go back to the original question, theoretically men shouldn't be allowed to vote on this issue, but realistically they will. As long as they don't want cookies for having graciously gifted women basic human rights, then go for it.

Elendon · 30/09/2017 15:19

I like this article. I think it says a lot of how I feel.

It really isn't about abortion, it's about the choices that pregnant women have in a civilised society.

www.thejournal.ie/readme/abortion-language-referendum-eighth-3618286-Sep2017/

Elendon · 30/09/2017 15:24

I think the word abortion is a very loaded term. It divides opinion.

It really is about seeing women as human beings and being able to make that choice regarding their own bodies. Something men would never have to contemplate, unless they were faced with cancer and or other surgical treatment. Certainly when it comes to any other medical treatment no one is criminalised for taking an informed decision as to what to do with their lives.

habenero20 · 30/09/2017 16:57

I don't understand this position at all.

The question in the referendum is whether women should have this autonomy over their own bodies, which currently they do not. You are basically assuming the conclusion of the referendum for half the population. The position that men shouldn't have a say in what a woman does with her body is what the vote is about (it goes further to say other women should also not have a say).

if not men, why should Catholic women be allowed to vote?

I for one think it shouldn't be put to vote. it should simply be wiped off the books by the government. But if you think it should be put to a vote, you clearly can't exclude half the electorate.

Elendon · 30/09/2017 17:25

Thousands turned out apparently, according to twitter accounts.

So pleased at the response.

This is a good report on the march and the sun shone down.

www.thejournal.ie/march-for-choice-repeal-the-eighth-3623708-Sep2017/

SparkyBlue · 30/09/2017 17:32

@habenero20 you do realise that the government have no say in this. It is an amendment to the constitution that requires a referendum. This has been repeated about 50 times on this thread.

Xenophile · 30/09/2017 17:35

The London march in solidarity was also well attended, which is brilliant.

AssassinatedBeauty · 30/09/2017 17:46

Yes I think people do clearly understand that according to Irish government procedure/law there must be a referendum to change any part of the constitution. I think people are simply saying what they would like to be the case, were it possible, expressing their feelings about the 8th amendment generally.

Missymoo100 · 30/09/2017 20:23

Didn't like the article cited above in the journal- the example of the woman who said she wanted a vaginal birth after 3 c sections- would be highly dangerous, risk of haemorrhage. Are we supposed to feel bad for her that she had to go to court to try and win her right to put herself in danger.
Also the stately it's "confusing" to say "pro-life" and instead it should be pro choice or anti choice - puts a negative spin on caring about the unborn. It's not about being anti choice, it's about protecting human life. Why can't it be pro-life, pro- death of foetus maybe that is that less confusing.....

Missymoo100 · 30/09/2017 20:27

Also trying to say it's not about abortion, repealing the 8th amendment- when it clearly is because it opens the door to it

Eenymeeny123 · 30/09/2017 20:36

Missymoo I totally agree and the example in the article was ridiculous and didn't really make their point very well to be honest. She wanted to give birth naturally even though it was clearly dangerous to her and the baby. Come on where's the common sense, she should have been fined for wasting the courts time. The doctors refused because it was too dangerous but because she's a woman and its her body she has the right to ignore medical advice and risk the life and that of her babies because it's her right. Err no you don't

MrsDustyBusty · 30/09/2017 21:15

It's interesting that people like UK MP Stella Creasey turn up for this kind of event. I wonder what they image it might achieve, other than making it look like they are entirely ignorant of how little benefit to Ireland the intervention of UK politicians has been.

existentialmoment · 02/10/2017 09:41

It's not about being anti choice, it's about protecting human life. Why can't it be pro-life, pro- death of foetus maybe that is that less confusing

it IS about being anti-choice. you are against people choosing for themselves, you are anti-choice. You are not pro-life because you aren't doing the one thing that actually would protect the lives of real living born human women: and that is repealing the 8th.

The amendment is about so much more than abortion. It affects every pregnancy, every miscarriage, every birth. And yes, it prevents us having our basic human right to abortion.

You are on the wrong side of this and you are going to lose.

FlaviaAlbia · 02/10/2017 09:50

I don't think there's much point wasting your breath arguing with pro lifers existentialmoment

Until they're in the position where they wish they had that choice or see the results from the lack of it, I don't think words will have an effect.

existentialmoment · 02/10/2017 09:55

I know, but it's better than leaving their rubbish hanging there unchallenged Wink

There were 50'000 of us on the streets on Saturday, it was amazing!

FlaviaAlbia · 02/10/2017 10:08

Fair point!

It looked amazing Smile

habenero20 · 02/10/2017 20:29

you do realise that the government have no say in this. It is an amendment to the constitution that requires a referendum

indeed.

what I don't get is the OP's point. Surely, a constitutional amendment requires consent from everyone, not just half the electorate.

kasalapihj · 03/10/2017 09:45

For me it sounds like: There is a referendum on whether men should pay for alimony.

But should women be allowed to vote on an issue that is about controlling rights, freedoms and bodies of men?

I don't think so. Very interested in thoughts.

existentialmoment · 03/10/2017 14:48

It might sound like that to you, but it doesn't to anyone else.

And it's actually quite insulting as an analogy.

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