DP says he is not a feminist..

[andintothefire]

We were having a discussion yesterday and my DP announced that he was not and never would be a feminist. I tried to explain to him that feminism doesn't involve misandry or promoting women over men. He was adamant that it was not a term he would use and laughed at the suggestion that some men also wear "This is what a feminist looks like" t-shirts.

I know it shouldn't upset me because he is in his actions very kind and has a daughter who he is very supportive of in terms of education and ambition. He also has no problem at all with me being ambitious and career minded. However it did shake me a bit. I have always previously been in relationships with men who are much more open minded (and more left wing in their views - though this is obviously separate to the feminism issue). It also reminded me of a conversation we had a few weeks ago where he said that I have influenced him not to forward or laugh at sexist emails because he knows I wouldn't like it. I don't want him not to forward them because I wouldn't like it - I want him to realise it is wrong!

It is actually making me wobble about the relationship. Is that a massive over reaction? He really is lovely, but there is a part of me that wonders if our outlook, upbringing and education just make us too divergent on these sorts of issues, especially when I think about having children together.

I suppose I am just posting to start a discussion and to hear views on this..

lib are you denying that the vast majority of women have been subject to unwelcome sexual harassment ?

Even the few that thought initially they hadn't came on to say "oh, well there was that time when my skirt got lifted in 5th form, and there was that fella that used to expose himself to me, oh and there was that boyfriend who used to whine and whine until he got sex...."

ibprog - can we just conclude that you aren't denying the experience, and it was just a poor choice of example where people may only be listening to their own echo chambers.

He is telling you what he is and you would do well to take heed.When it all implodes 5 yrs down the line he will be able to remind you that he told you 5 yrs ago how he felt

Yes. OP has even tried to explain feminism to him, an effort I usually don't make.

It is, of course, a problem that she has already invested so much in him.

For me it is: "Are you a feminist? No? Okay, thanks for your honesty, bye."

On the first date. Of course I am sneakier, as some men won't admit to not being feminists, but that's about it.

I mean, it is hard to find a suitable partner, and for some women, the benefits of being in a heterosexual relationship might outweigh the emotional pain that comes with having a partner who doesn't really love you, but I couldn't do it.

God what a grim view of society you have.

God what a grim view of society you have.

You certainly do nothing to improve it.

Any call for that, growapear?

Well I guess it's either that or accept the majority of men are bastards, but worse than that some of them are sneaky bastards and so the only basis on which to proceed with the unfathomable task of trying to find a "suitable" one is to engage in some grim game of cat and mouse in order to trick them into revealing their true hatred of the opposite sex.

What a nasty thing to say! I think you need to grow more than a pear. You have had an empathy bypass by the looks of things.

No one has said that no man suffers as much as every woman

Your point being ? The statement I disagreed with is the one below- which actually is saying that no man experiences the disadvantages that every woman faces.

Precisely none of them have come anywhere near experiencing the disadvantages that women face every single day

Disadvantages every single day is in my lived experience an absurd statement.

OP

For the love of humanity please don't ruin a relationship in which you admit that the other person is 'lovely' and 'supportive' toward you and his daughter, because he refuses to prescribe to your version of justice or egalitarianism.

By all means explain to him how passionate you are about what you constitute as feminism, explain he has to accept that, and that he has to support you even, but if you honestly beleive that your version of feminism is more important than a perfectly good relationship, just because his vision is different, and he refuses to label himself, then you have to look inward!

Judge every person by their actions, not by the labels you demand they place on themselves!

Dervel I think you confuse empathy with sympathy, see why men cannot be feminists.

grow - VV's observation was about your contribution to her 'world view'.
Your comment was just personal and invidious. Apology might be good here?

tbh I think as long as the DP is treating you right, the rest is immaterial. It'll make for a few heated discussions but that should really be part of the fun of the relationship. I don't think my DP has ever said he's a feminist and would probably say he wasn't if I asked him but I really couldn't care less. His actions are for the most part those of a man who knew about feminism, which is enough for me

Strictly

I don't think an apology from me would be of any consequence to VV, do you ? And why do you two men keep popping up when you think another man might have offended a female poster ? Does the term "virtue signalling" mean anything to you ?

give the apology a go eh? You never know how it may be received.

pear your comment was deleted before I could see it, so it must have been pretty bad

I am not sure how to read you, tbh. Are you male or female ?

Oh right, you are male

< jigsaw pieces fall into place >

ah well. Still, the apology can still be made and it will say a lot about your character if you did that.

fwiw I don;t know exactly what virtue signalling is, but it sounds something like pursuing the 'feminist cookie', which most FWR regulars would testify is hardly my style..protesting when someone is rude is just the polite and civilized thing to do.

It was perhaps slightly out of order in suggesting that the problem in VV obtaining a suitable partner might lie in her approach to dating. It wasn't I felt much of an attack and as noted I wouldn't have imagined VV is even slightly bothered by it, however it seems I broke the rules. Yes - i'm male.

erm....no offence Strictly but you cannot have failed to notice posters being rude to me, and yet you were silent ? I think here is more that a mere objection to rudeness going on here.

what would that be then ?

don't be shy

I've time grow. Tell me what's going on more than just an objection to rudeness? I'm cooking tea so I will be in and out. But go ahead?
'slightly out of order' is a start, so that's good.

Strictly I am questioning it, because (not saying you are, but is sounds like) you are claiming a monopoly here on this particular victimhood. That doesn't go down well with ppl.

Second, selection bias is still an issue.

Finally, perception, of course I can't prove this, but I would not be very surprised if a lot of guys who would say they haven't been sexually harassed, if they were girls they would say yes.

AF

Not sure what you're asking me - see my post of 17.46 maybe.