DP says he is not a feminist..

[andintothefire]

We were having a discussion yesterday and my DP announced that he was not and never would be a feminist. I tried to explain to him that feminism doesn't involve misandry or promoting women over men. He was adamant that it was not a term he would use and laughed at the suggestion that some men also wear "This is what a feminist looks like" t-shirts.

I know it shouldn't upset me because he is in his actions very kind and has a daughter who he is very supportive of in terms of education and ambition. He also has no problem at all with me being ambitious and career minded. However it did shake me a bit. I have always previously been in relationships with men who are much more open minded (and more left wing in their views - though this is obviously separate to the feminism issue). It also reminded me of a conversation we had a few weeks ago where he said that I have influenced him not to forward or laugh at sexist emails because he knows I wouldn't like it. I don't want him not to forward them because I wouldn't like it - I want him to realise it is wrong!

It is actually making me wobble about the relationship. Is that a massive over reaction? He really is lovely, but there is a part of me that wonders if our outlook, upbringing and education just make us too divergent on these sorts of issues, especially when I think about having children together.

I suppose I am just posting to start a discussion and to hear views on this..

You're big on evidence and citations and academic references.

Well, actually no, they aren't. They're big on saying they are, but small on providing or backing any of it up, which suggests they might just be the tiniest tad irrelevant.

Oh, I know that Xeno - it's only everyone else, these hopeless, hapless feminist saps who have to provide anything as vulgar as actual evidence Pizan is just RIGHT because...reasons.

I think Pizan is currently frantically googling to find some feminists who agree with their viewpoint.

It mustn't be going very well.

There might be a good reason for that.

hahahah
That little interchange is funny.

You see Fresh, as I said previously, some of my admiration goes toward self proclaimed feminists and non feminists. Pizan was very important to the formal cause you speak of, how could she not have been!

Friedan is a far more formal, and clearly approvable woman I have to respect.

You see, I am far more about actions.

Xenophile

Please highlight the lack of evidence you require and i'll happily provide.

You have been asked previously, and explicitly refused to do so, it might therefore be useful for you to go back through your various refusals and start from there.

Your lack has been highlighted, I look forward to you providing it. Happily.

My refusal...

My lack...

What are you talking about, what have I refused, and what have I lacked?

Specifics would help your case here!

What are we doing, googling Friedan? hahahaha

JOKE!!!

I don't have a case to prove. It is you who have failed to back up your assertions.

You have stated repeatedly that you work from facts and evidence and yet have never provided any of either.

Either provide it or cease to assert that you can.

Be specific!

Name a point I've made without evidencing it and i'll reassure you of that evidence.

Right now your being generically combative because you dislike me, which isn't helping the thread or general discussion.

I can't deny that I find your contributions (including this one) risible and deliberately derailing, however I have no personal feelings toward you either way.

It's fine that you are unable to provide the evidence you stated you had to prove all your "points", I understand you position perfectly now. Thank you for clarifying.

It's fine that your dishonest in what you say about me, that clarifies your position perfectly.

I suggest we go our seperate ways, you seemingly don't want to discuss or debate, you want agreement, and when you don't get it you want to besmirch.

I am being completely honest with you. It's not me who has relied on evidence they don't have and I have no reason to lie about my feelings toward you.

Again, provide the evidence you stated you had or apologise to those you have been extraordinarily rude to during your many derails of the interesting discussions and debates you have taken part in. If you are capable of doing so.

I won't respond to your crazy 'Evidence, need evidence' rant until you provide any example where I've made a statement and not backed it up, you're becoming incoherant.

To slightly mis quote you back to yourself.

I don't need to provide examples, you should be looking them up for yourself.

But bless you for your continued and increasingly irrelevant posts. They provide a bright spot in an otherwise work heavy day.

Xenophile - whether or not English is my first language is irrelevant. I could be a foreigner and be impressively articulate, or I could be English without even a C in GSCE English.

"Right now your being generically combative because you dislike me, which isn't helping the thread or general discussion." Could not agree more. I posted something and because a) I questioned certain things and b) I was new, I was dismissed as a troll. Very recurring theme on here. A lot of confirmation bias going on.

You see Fresh, as I said previously, some of my admiration goes toward self proclaimed feminists and non feminists. Pizan was very important to the formal cause you speak of, how could she not have been!

Friedan is a far more formal, and clearly approvable woman I have to respect

I'm trying really hard to parse some meaning out of this, but it's a struggle. Isn't every feminist a self-proclaimed feminist? It's not like there's a guild, or you have to get voted in or anything. As for the rest of it - so you admire women who are not feminists too? Fine - but irrelevant to the question (my money's on M. Thatcher by the way).

I don't know what "formal" or "clearly approvable" mean in this context either Do you mean "academic", and "stuff that Pizanfan approves of"?

It's meaningless to call any person or activity before the 20th century "feminist" because the concept just did not exist until at least the emergence of the campaign for women's suffrage - but more accurately, the rise of women's liberation in the 60s and 70s.

So you've sort of answered my question, but we're no further forward in clarifying your position, other than just yelling at feminists to shut the fuck up already

My apologies Libprog, it was merely a question, nothing for you to get worked up about. A straight answer might have explained some of your more idiosyncratic posts is all. Your instance on being inaccurate about others' names while being becoming upset about someone missing a letter out of yours three times for example.

I wished to understand you better. Not to worry. You wish to be enigmatic. Fill your boots!

I was not upset, as I have said now multiple times, I was simply curious. And the answer that the first character is often missed out on when copy pasting satisfied my curiosity. Do you always think people are upset if they question something?

And I didn't get worked up about this either, I was merely questioning your motives, highlighting that the way I express myself does not necessarily reflect whether or not English is my mother tongue.

And I disagree, leaving out the first letter seemed very odd to me. I would not have questioned if people had written "lib" or "prog". Me writing Strictly instead of StrictlyPan is not the same as ibprog instead of libprog.

No, I tend to only think people are upset if they act in ways that denote that they are.

Then you aren't particularly good at reading people.