DP says he is not a feminist..

[andintothefire]

We were having a discussion yesterday and my DP announced that he was not and never would be a feminist. I tried to explain to him that feminism doesn't involve misandry or promoting women over men. He was adamant that it was not a term he would use and laughed at the suggestion that some men also wear "This is what a feminist looks like" t-shirts.

I know it shouldn't upset me because he is in his actions very kind and has a daughter who he is very supportive of in terms of education and ambition. He also has no problem at all with me being ambitious and career minded. However it did shake me a bit. I have always previously been in relationships with men who are much more open minded (and more left wing in their views - though this is obviously separate to the feminism issue). It also reminded me of a conversation we had a few weeks ago where he said that I have influenced him not to forward or laugh at sexist emails because he knows I wouldn't like it. I don't want him not to forward them because I wouldn't like it - I want him to realise it is wrong!

It is actually making me wobble about the relationship. Is that a massive over reaction? He really is lovely, but there is a part of me that wonders if our outlook, upbringing and education just make us too divergent on these sorts of issues, especially when I think about having children together.

I suppose I am just posting to start a discussion and to hear views on this..

Or possible the answer you are looking for is one I already gave, i.e. "virtue signalling"

Pan is doing nothing of the sort.

I happen to know he has come in for some criticism on this board in the past

Why the fuck should he rescue anyone else ?

Lass, from your post:

"However the statement that no man suffers the same as every women is , for me, an absurd statement. "

Hence my response:

"No one has said that no man suffers as much as every woman"

Fucked if I know. He was the one who said he objected to rudeness and interceded on those grounds.

Actually belly laughing at someone suggesting that Pan is either virtue signalling or after feminist cookies. I've "known" Pan for a long time, and those are two things I don't think anyone could accuse him of.

I may or may not have a list of things one could accuse him of though

I would love to print that out for you, Xeno, but Santa's waiting to print his naughty list and you'd empty the paper tray

Xeno and Yonic - yeah whatevers. As long-standing FWR people I'd really appreciate it if that list, which you may or may not have, remains in a dusty drawer. I've had moments of crashing ineptitude and embarrassment, but I'm working on them..

ibprog - I'm honestly not seeing how I can 'claim a monopoly' on that issue as I am a man and don't have the day-to-day experience, so I'm a bit caught out on that one. And I think the in-built bias you refer to isn't really relevant here, imo. The evidence isn't centered on MN women, it's every (or just about every) woman who is asked.

Cookies and things? Nope. By suggestion grow you imply both me and Dervel seek the cookie. Neither I nor himself are declared 'feminists' but, reading stuff properly I think, are allies and v pro-women.

Getting back to the OP ...she's already stated she has absorbed enough to take a path, so good for that.

Yag

Welcome to MN! Which other feminists do you admire?

Sorry, missed the strike through on other there...

"ibprog - I'm honestly not seeing how I can 'claim a monopoly' on that issue as I am a man and don't have the day-to-day experience, so I'm a bit caught out on that one. And I think the in-built bias you refer to isn't really relevant here, imo. The evidence isn't centered on MN women, it's every (or just about every) woman who is asked."

Just because you are a man doesn't change your words. If anything, I would say it makes you sound sexist: "i have no idea what it feels like for a woman, but what men suffer is nothing compared to women": this is what you wrote: "eg the white wc man is immeasurably better 'favoured' by society than the white wc woman". As I said, you didn't say so, but at least in my eyes it very much sounds like you are claiming so "oh forget whatever problems men have, they have it immeasurably better than women". Even the choice of word, "immeasurably" adds to this. From my experience, if you were to talk to some guys, they would a) rip you apart / ridicule for that b) come up with a billion counter examples c) say "this is why feminazis are stupid".

What do you think selection bias is? I don't know what you mean with "in built bias" but it doesn't sound like selection bias at all.

Finally, why do so many of you quite my name without the L?

Finally, why do so many of you quite my name without the L?

Because sometimes when you copy/paste names the first letter gets left off on MN. It's nothing personal.

Same reason you typed "quite" instead of "quote" I imagine

I didn't assume it was personal, it was just odd that multiple people did it.

And well multiple people leaving out a letter at the beginning is not quite the same as a typo.

And advanced search shows that 1 person has done it, and almost certainly for the reason I suggested.

It really isn't anything personal.

He might do many things, deliberately being a dick about your screen name wouldn't be one of them.

Lib, because I have the word "fuck" in my user name you assumed I like to do lot of fucking

Missing off the first letter of your name is no biggie

libprog - sorry about the missing 'l' of your poster name, really, It isn't personal - people get Pan wrong from time to time, and that's okay, I'm not precious about it.

fwiw I don;t mean, from my earlier post that men should 'forget' their problems because women have it soo much worse. But it would be a really good idea IF there was an awareness of how demands of life and it's management fall differentially on women that men just don't absorb and act upon, and amend our behaviours accordingly, generally. Life would be so much sweeter for all concerned if that happened.

Yes I'm sure I'd be 'ripped apart' as it were by some guys who would violently disagree, but I'd be asking " so where exactly, and I mean exactly, are these billion counter arguments that you suggest can be produced that wc women have it 'easier' than wc men,? (yes I'd stick to the notion of 'favoured'). Even point to one or five, that would be excellent if you can?
I don't mean to be confrontational about that, but you did suggest there would be a billion arguments? Picky, I know.

Feminazi? tbh I really couldn't be bothered with that.

On reflection, I'm doubting libprog that you spend much time in the company of women.

people, chill, i did not think it was personal, i was genuinely curious why in so many posts (and ok i didn't check users, but it was definitely quite a few posts) this was going on.

Fucker - and well i wrote that after your suggestive post about me and paid sex.

Strictly - as I said, i don't think you mean that, I am just pointing out that it could easily be seen that way. with the counter arguments, i said they would not me, but a few would be rapes in prison (apparently men are more likely to be raped by strangers by women due to this phenomenon) they would point out custody battles, they would point out false accusations, they would point out positive discrimination, I mean there are people out there who argue white working class males have it the worst. Now I am not saying any of these are true, I am saying people believe that, and when you say something like what you did and someone comes along and says what I just said, I guarantee you a lot of guys would identify with what I said and be turned negative towards you. In a sense what happened with Trump.

Well that's a mute point, if I said I do you wouldn't believe me anyway.

But what you may believe is that I do spend 9-10 hours a day for five days a week in an office with female colleagues. And we do talk, work and private, shocker, huh?

I agree that there is a problem with identity politics effectively erasing/minimising certain sections of the population as not being 'worthy' of attention.

It's a little bit like the deserving poor vs the undeserving poor. However upon accepting this premise many people swing the pendulum too far in the other direction. By way of example a common argument pops where mra's moan about the disparities between funding raised for breast cancer vs prostate cancer. However rather than make it a men vs women argument that really doesn't help anyone, and applaud any breast cancer awareness and fund raising campaigns and seek to replicate the success.

I have no problem if people want to form groups advocating for specific sections of the population. More power to anyone making a difference I say. The real enemy is apathy not each other.

Totally uncalled for, mum. I've reported you.

I would be delighted if I had a child as articulate and smart as Amy. Your venom towards her says much more about you than her.