DP says he is not a feminist..

[andintothefire]

We were having a discussion yesterday and my DP announced that he was not and never would be a feminist. I tried to explain to him that feminism doesn't involve misandry or promoting women over men. He was adamant that it was not a term he would use and laughed at the suggestion that some men also wear "This is what a feminist looks like" t-shirts.

I know it shouldn't upset me because he is in his actions very kind and has a daughter who he is very supportive of in terms of education and ambition. He also has no problem at all with me being ambitious and career minded. However it did shake me a bit. I have always previously been in relationships with men who are much more open minded (and more left wing in their views - though this is obviously separate to the feminism issue). It also reminded me of a conversation we had a few weeks ago where he said that I have influenced him not to forward or laugh at sexist emails because he knows I wouldn't like it. I don't want him not to forward them because I wouldn't like it - I want him to realise it is wrong!

It is actually making me wobble about the relationship. Is that a massive over reaction? He really is lovely, but there is a part of me that wonders if our outlook, upbringing and education just make us too divergent on these sorts of issues, especially when I think about having children together.

I suppose I am just posting to start a discussion and to hear views on this..

" Do all of you that find sexist jokes completely inappropriate (even going so far to say you would not date someone who laughed at them), also find racist jokes completely inappropriate? "

yes i hate racist and sexist jokes.
I would not date anyone that thought that racist jokes were funny.

• but then my dad was Irish and I grew up in the 70s and 80s which was a time when people thought that telling stupid Irish jokes was hilarious.

Do all of you that find sexist jokes completely inappropriate (even going so far to say you would not date someone who laughed at them), also find racist jokes completely inappropriate? Either hypocritical or surprising, giving the UK is known for its black humor.

I am not from the UK, and I don't know many racist jokes I would consider funny at all. Unless you group the jokes we make about neighbouring (white-skinned) nations as racist, I am not sure I could come up with even one genuinely funny racist joke.

Funny stereotype jokes tend to be about culture, not race.

Most "sexist jokes" are just sexism that you could take at face value if not told that it is supposed to be a joke. Ha, ha.

lib "Do all of you that find sexist jokes completely inappropriate (even going so far to say you would not date someone who laughed at them), also find racist jokes completely inappropriate? "

I am utterly mystified by this remark. Of course I feel the same about racist jokes.

Vestal " Unless you group the jokes we make about neighbouring (white-skinned) nations as racist, I am not sure I could come up with even one genuinely funny racist joke. "

confused by this too. I'm not white but i am British and I don't see any nations as having a particular skin colour?!

Dozer - Er, no one has said they like racist jokes

So everyone who likes say Frankie Boyle is vile? What about Dave Chapelle?

have never watched Frankie Boyle and have no idea who Dave Chapelle is.

So things like the Vines about watermelons and black people would be completely shocking to you?

Is Frankie Boyle a well known racist comedian? I find Frankie Boyle distasteful for many reasons and choose not to watch anything with him on. I haven't seen any of David Chappelle's comedy so no idea about that.

As for Vines, I don't know what they are. You will need to explain what you mean I think.

who me?
who is 'the vines'?
If anyone was making jokes about black people and watermelons i would switch it off. Actually I tend not to watch TV which saves a lot of bother.

lib, I almost don't want to respond because I have a feeling you're here to derail but if it helps

...fans of Frankie Boyle, hmm, safe to say not someone I'd be mates with
....don't know Dave
....vines about watermelons and black people - yes just as offensive as a sexist joke

what are you getting at by the way?!

PS I don't know much about FB other than his disablist jokes, more than enough to put him on the "don't listen to this arsewipe" list.

libprog

Not a fan of Frankie Boyle and unfamiliar with Chapelle.

Am I shocked so much humour is sexist or racist? Not in the slightest, since there is still a lot of sexism and racism about, to state the obvious.

Would I want to date/be friends with someone who liked these jokes? No.

However, there is a lot of fun to be had making fun of sexism and racism, which, to me, is black humour, since these issues are not funny. Picture attached.

Racist jokes was just another example to sexist. I suppose he is not known as a racist one, but an offensive one.

Vines is a social media platform where you upload videos that are a maximum of 6 seconds long, and your followers can see them, or they can get posted elsewhere (youtube is full of them). The app will actually close again though because it's already been made redundant by others like snapchat.

but lib, why are you asking?!

Yes, I would be completely shocked by jokes about black people and watermelons. I wouldn't go out with someone who thought they were funny. That isn't a controversial position, surely?

@Lorelei76: As mentioned above, jokes about Irish people are considered racist. However but some people would say that racism is discriminating people due to skin colour.

So things like the Vines about watermelons and black people would be completely shocking to you?

Perhaps it would be shocking to me after someone explained to me why it is supposed to be funny. Black people and watermelons have nothing to do with each other as far as I am concerned. This thing just confuses me whenever I see it on media.

Well sorry about derailing the thread. I didn't actually intend to, the point was wondering whether you are consistent in your views, which makes you sincere, something a lot of people aren't.

But it also highlights why feminism has such a bad rep, or rather quite a lot of people that feel strongly against it. Just look at the last two votes, and people saying well Brexit and Trump happened because people don't like being told they are wrong, being dismissed as racists and sexists. Well every single one of you so far has basically said they think people do enjoy these jokes are idiots (well you were more polite, but that is the implication), so someone who was neutral about feminism might suddenly feel attacked in a similar manner as people say caused the results of the votes.

libprog you know British 'black' humour isn't jokes about black people, right?

VestalVirgin - it's a stereotype in American social media that blacks love watermelons (and chicken).

why i am asking is in the post above (the one part should read people who do enjoy, not, people do enjoy).

I don't care if racists are offended by me thinking that they're idiots for finding racists jokes funny.

lib - if there's a prize for conflating several issues and applying them to a group of people you don't know - it's yours.

to get back on point (sigh) - OP you are not the first to post here about finding out that their partner is sexist or whatever. I suppose only you will know if he just spouting shit he doesn't mean, or being brainless or whatever. but my dad's response when I commented on some of the things he found funny was to be irate. This pretty much sums him up. So where your DP goes from here is key.

I do think that people who don't call out this stuff are contributing to the problem so if he's blithely laughing at sexist jokes, that's not great, sorry. All that has changed is he's hiding it from you.

OP.

I used to think of myself as fairly liberal, with political opinions fairly to the left of centre. As I got older I suppose some of those have shifted. I struggle with feminism although I tell my daughters they can do anything boys can, and I avoid gender stereotypes - i like to think i treat people the same regardless of their sex. I am fully on board with pretty much all the stuff feminists say, but nonetheless some sort of siege mentality has kicked in around feminism.

Minimal self reflection would indicate that the problem is that as a white guy, current liberal thinking tells me I am the recipient of enormous privilege. I, and I think many other men, esp. from working class backgrounds (but could be wrong) like to think of myself as someone who has succeeded despite the obstacles of class and elitism that exist in the UK.

Feminism seems to suggest that women, who already academically outperform boys and men, do so despite all the odds of a society that has stacked the odds against them. If you think about this, it means that women actually have to work harder and fight harder for everything they get, so they're not really my peers at all. It seems to me like if I really believed this, then when presented with two similarly qualified candidates, i would be utterly insane to give the man a job, because the women must've worked harder and fought more to get to the same level.

libprog

I am not entirely sure what you are trying to argue.

It is not my responsibility, or the responsibility of other feminists or anti-racist campaigners, to make peoople feel good about their prejudices.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett whatever, I could have used Asians and their eyes or their strict parents, also very popular on Vine, as an example instead.

I mentioned black humor because well it is making jokes about topics that are otherwise considered too sensitive, or not? Hence why I asked if you are shocked by jokes about race or say disability which one of you at least has said makes FB unacceptable, showing that I was right to be surprised that you don't like these jokes giving the UK is famor for black humor. But I guess that is also just another stereotype.