Cat calling

[Cocklodger]

I'm sure this one has been done to death, I don't frequent the board often tbh.
now I hate catcalling. I'm sure every woman has or will experience it. Its not pleasant. It makes me angry and sometimes it scares me,
But today I've seen a post on FB (with someone of a similar view point to me) being ripped into, because
''Its just a compliment''
she's a ''fun sucker''
''I bet she would've REALLY just asked for his number''... Those comments came from women.
Now I, being me decided to defend this person and found the same comments hurled at me. I've now just left it because I've gotten to the point where I can no longer even try to come up with a coherent argument. I have also received personal insults(about my appearance and the fact I'm obviously a bit fat since I was recently pregnant baby under 2wks old)
i just didn't realize how acceptable it was, I genuinely thought it was wildly noted as pretty fucking annoying (If I'm being generous)
I don't even know what to say.
Wtf is wrong with people?
Can someone please reassure me that I'm not wrong? I know I sound bloody pathetic but for some reason finding out how acceptable it is has actually quite scared and shaken me a lot....

It doesn't matter how you spell it, we all get whats meant. My quick type spelling is atrocious, noone cares (or they shouldn't).

PoC is what I have been requested to use to describe PoC by PoC so I'll carry on using it out of respect to them. BAME is also acceptable to PoC in the UK, so I might use that as well. Out of respect.

Datun

I did mention a few initiatives I was involved with earlier in the thread, but had to ask HQ to delete as I realised it revealed too much personal information. Sorry I can't be more specifc, but they are pro women initiatives, that I am not prominantly involved with (high profile).

I am pro women and anti street harassment. I think that is perfectly clear from my posts. I just have very different beliefs about it.

That was in response to pizan who mistakenly posted a question to me on this thread on another thread.

Which prominent feminist do you feel embodies your approach to feminism, Pizan?

I ask as the way that you have explained your stance on here bears little relation to any school of feminism that I am aware of.

And no, I do not need to speak to men to understand street harassment. I'm already well aware of the range of reasons why the poor misunderstood little flowers do it.

It's a compliment!
What are you, some kind of feminazi?
He's just telling you he fancies you!
You should be grateful
You should look at it from his perspective
Why do you bother getting dressed up if you don't want people to look at you?
He's impressing his mates
He's hoping that you fancy him back

It's all self-justificatory bullshit, and I don't care. I am not a victim, so will you please can it with that phrase? I am not weak, or passive, or whatever else it is you think that women do to bring this on ourselves. I get it because I am the kind of woman that a certain type of man likes to bring down a peg or two. There are many of us. And our perspective is valid. We've done the thinking on this.

Anyway, I can't hang round here all day, I've got to go & see a man about a dog.

Ive go to go &I see a man about a dog

This would explain some things

So no stats, no science, no evidence and a deletion mentioning 2 women's initiatives which I read and they outed no-one and you're not prominently involved with anyway.

What a waste of time.

"Men are not inherently bad, some are, just like some women are, treat everyone as an individual!"
More victim-blaming style inversions here! We have women reporting street harassment and we're not supposed to notice the overwhelming perponderance of males as the perpetrators because? Surely a flawed statistical analysis of the data here........................

I treat women as less of a risk to myself than men, because that is justified by the figures! Nothing personal, just plain ole Bayes Theorem.................

fresh noooooooo!

Has Pizan answered this yet...?

The men who Amy has described didn't have any supervisors, and some moved to verbal insults when she didn't respond.

How would you empower her?

What is it about FWR that tends to attract trollish posters like dog poo attracts flies?

Seriously - there are so many good conversations that could be had if we were not deflected by having to do basic things like ... oh, I don't know... defend our basic humanity or argue against (il)logical posts or explain that we don't need men's permission to have opinions.

Grumble.

Growapear, you do realise that is often given as "self-defence" advice to women by concerned authority figures on how women can protect themselves from rape.

Advising young women (schoolgirls) to "tool up" because they face such danger from men, is irresponsible. It would invite blame on the girls who got attacked without having weapons for one. That is exactly what you would tell me if I were to suggest it. Perhaps you agree with my comment about what amy should do if she really is carrying around makeshift weapons such is her fear of men/boys, but you can't bring yourself to admit it.

Why would you think men have a right to harass women?

I don't think they have a right, but you think they have no right to shout at people, but they have loud voices - why shouldn't they have the right to use those voices to direct abuse at people ? Who's going to stop them ? The only reason "men" are not able to do whatever they want, is because "men" will stop them. You have pretty much no right to anything really without that.

I think what gorwapear is saying is that men have the right to converse and initiate conversation with anyone.

No - I wasn't saying that. I was saying that our rights are given to us and guaranteed as best they can be, by men.

Datun

Which signally fails to take into account the 90% of victims who have been raped inside their home. Telling these people they have no need to fear, because the chances of it happening outside are far less is ridiculous.

I don't get why my (much) earlier idea to issue advice to women to avoid having personal relations with men is also ridiculous ? I still don't get why any of the women who fear men so much would be inclined to pursue personal relationships with men, invite them into their home ? Its not like they have to. So for someone of Amy's age - if you think men are as rotten as you make them out to be, avoid personal relationships with them, it's really simple.

So women are utterly powerless? Well how about you help us out a bit then, as a self professed decent man?

I never declared myself to be decent.

That saves me bothering to debate that with you then.

So you're not a decent man, you think it's the law of the jungle, you're ignorant and minimise and dismiss street harassment and how it makes women feel. That cover it?

Whether i think of myself as a "decent" person or not, is neither here nor there. I've never met anyone who would not say they themselves were decent, so a self profession of decency is largely worthless.

Your point without all the twisting and turning and derailing? Do you or do you not think street harassment is wrong?

I said street harassment was wrong pages ago, what I dislike is the attribution of the problem to all men and their attitudes to women. Would you care to respond to any of the points in my last post - or is that it ?

Grow you do seem to be expanding on things you have not much understanding of. And unfortunately you still appear to be taking things through your prism of "personal". You are it going to get very far until you stop doing that, if I may say.

Women using sprays is a very common practice and probs condoned by police authorities.

Relationships with men? I'd think you need to talk to someone in RL about that point. Posting on here doesn't appear to be having much affect on your appreciation of the intricacies and "manageable risks" often involved.

Our rights are given to us by men? Well this brings the context of your posts into sharp relief.

Women only have the rights we as men deign to give them? What an absolute unvarnished pile of epic bullshit.

Basically you're saying women's requests to not be harassed is not sufficient grounds for us (as men) to give it to them if it means men have to take responsibility as it's more important that we don't.

You have spectacularly shot yourself in the foot there. I can't apologise that men do this to women, yet men as a class are rights dispensers. Well that makes us responsible you dingus.

Rights are inherent, founded on human potential we all have capacity to reach. What needs to be guarded against is when someone (you in this case if you aren't following) is when someone through violence or oppression seeks to undermine this.

The last post was full of the derailing all your posts have been. You're clearly on this thread and probably board to divert topics and cause arguments, for whatever reason. As for your going on about "avoiding relationships with men", I luckily have great relationships with my dad and brothers but would have no choice about having relationships with them either way seeing as I live in the same house as them, and regardless, seeing as the men who've harassed me in the street are completely unknown it's ridiculous you think it's "really that simple". But then you don't actually care about what women and girls receive as has been abundantly clear for quite some time. How lovely this issue affects you so little you can spend time derailing conversation about it for no reason and dismiss women.

Thanks Dervel, that's exactly what I was trying to get across to grow before the derail about whether he was objectively a "decent man".

Dervel great point, I was astounded by that "we have rights because men guarantee them" nonsense for so many reasons but that he's derailed and diverted all over this thread complaining about "men being blamed" according to him yet seems to want us to be thankful for any rights men decide to "give" women says a lot.