Cat calling

[Cocklodger]

I'm sure this one has been done to death, I don't frequent the board often tbh.
now I hate catcalling. I'm sure every woman has or will experience it. Its not pleasant. It makes me angry and sometimes it scares me,
But today I've seen a post on FB (with someone of a similar view point to me) being ripped into, because
''Its just a compliment''
she's a ''fun sucker''
''I bet she would've REALLY just asked for his number''... Those comments came from women.
Now I, being me decided to defend this person and found the same comments hurled at me. I've now just left it because I've gotten to the point where I can no longer even try to come up with a coherent argument. I have also received personal insults(about my appearance and the fact I'm obviously a bit fat since I was recently pregnant baby under 2wks old)
i just didn't realize how acceptable it was, I genuinely thought it was wildly noted as pretty fucking annoying (If I'm being generous)
I don't even know what to say.
Wtf is wrong with people?
Can someone please reassure me that I'm not wrong? I know I sound bloody pathetic but for some reason finding out how acceptable it is has actually quite scared and shaken me a lot....

No thanks, this sums me up fine.

Although FeministChatbot might be even better

I have read the whole thread (scanned a few bits) but I couldn't resist pointing out to you your behaviour on this thread. The first half or three quarters of this thread are you dominating other posters, and when they stand up for themselves, you dismiss or belittle them (or both). I actually wondered for a while if you were doing it as a deliberate clever way of demonstrating what it is like to be dominated/belittled by men!

To the same end, you were rattling off inaccurately presented psychology theory and research to gain a superior position to the other posters. Maybe you should reflect on why you needed to do that?

I am a psychologist, working specifically with forensic populations and I'm not sold on your declaration of how you 'fix' the young people you work with either to be frank.

If you want me to prattle on about how psychology would explain catcalls, I'll give it a whirl, but what really struck me was your attitude and approach!

Anactualpsychologist

I'm going to take you at your word, because I have no reason to doubt your credentials, despite the interesting conversation one could have with a psychologist who names her/him self as anactualpsychologist in a chatroom.

Please see highlighted points above as I address them...

You are not the behaviour police, you don't need to point anything out, I know exactly how I behave.

I do not dominate anyone, I use stats and evidence to make claims, and discuss innacuracies of others argument. There is no power or influence here.

Please cite where I have belittled anyone! Unlike you, and others I don't go after people, I comment on posts, and innacuracies.

Please correct me on my innacuracies, I suspect if there were many innacuracies you would have cited them.

Where have I said I fix anyone? I am searching out a fix for a problem, and am involved with helping people. Infact in your field, I would think you would be more empathetic to my stance, working with criminal mental illness, and determing causal factors etc.

Prattle on? You sound very passionate about what you do!

To sum up, I don't think you've read the content of my posts, and merely have been engrossed in the debate, and dislike for how I have put my case forward. That highlights to me that your emotion has trumped your reason, which could be an issue in your field don't you think.

I've said it plenty, ignore who I am, how I sound, and leave the emotion at the door, deal with me in facts, evidence, and reason, and I will have no recourse but to change my mind.

Catching up. Yes in the bones was something I said to Barnardos rep recently and she said 'yep that's why it's so hard to shift. It isn't a simple cognition that can be easily shifted.'
Good to see so many psychologists on the thread so we are all up to speed on the psychologically-informed concept of "shame"....

Grow- no need to type that you feel 'conflicted' about finding women you find sexually attractive attractive. I suspect most posters round here won't be glasping their pearls. Fwiw I find I am sexually attracted to women I admire. Weird that isn't it!

Last time I was involved in a cat calling incident was last year when a woman colleague in my team at work came in to tell me a boy had just said "nice tits" to her as she walked by just outside the office. The long and short is that I went to investigate and later that day had boy and his father in my office to 'discuss' the incident. It was as plain as day as to where the boy got the permission from to behave like that. He was 14 yo ffs.

pizan, if everybody is giving you the same feedback on how you're coming across (which I agree with, btw), then that should be the cue for a bit of self-reflection. You are belittling, patronising and brow beating people. THAT is fact, and the evidence is your string of breathless, hectoring posts on this thread, and others. I've no idea if you've got anything worth saying because it is lost in the aggressive tone.

If you want to change views, you need to change your approach. It's not working.

I have a psychologist embedded in my team and I am fairly buddy-like with another. Both women fwiw.
I am finding that some of the diction used on this thread is at odds with the choices of words and expressions they use.

Yy Selkie.

pizan, if everybody is giving you the same feedback on how you're coming across (which I agree with, btw), then that should be the cue for a bit of self-reflection.

So by that thought process if men keep telling you to 'smile' maybe it's a bit of time for self reflection?

Who have I belittled? I do not mention posters character, and I don't write aggressively. I am very assertive about the facts and evidence I use to develop an accurate opinion.

It's strange, in a thread in which I am outnumbered, have been attacked and called names, by a group highlighting bully behaviour, I have been turned into a demon for speaking accurately and assertively.

As I mentioned earlier, this is the exact same way I am sometimes treated by numbers of men within the professional environment, they don't understand when I laugh off their tactics, as you guys won't when I laugh off yours.

I am a very up front, and factual feminist, I take rubbish from men sometimes when I won't let them get away with things, sadly I take more from self proclaimed feminists.

It's interesting that this subject matter is perpetuating the woman as victim mentality, and when confronted with the idea that women should be equal, and therefore not act like victims, victim mentality kicks in.

You belittled IamAmy due to her age for a start. Are you seriously claiming you haven't?!

So by that thought process if men keep telling you to 'smile' maybe it's a bit of time for self reflection?

For someone who appears to think them self extremely intelligent, this shows poor comprehension indeed. You think a man shouting in the street is a comparable context to a discussion which you have chosen to participate in?

Pizanfan I'd like to understand your position on the issue of street harassment. Please could you summarise your thoughts on it?

^ themselves

I'd also like a summary. Whatever it is you believe has been lost in the patronising nonsense you gill your posts with. It'd be interesting to hear you summarise, briefly, your views on street harassment.

You call it belittling, I call it taking responsibility for not impacting negatively on a childs psychological development. I purposely stopped commenting toward her, and can only hope she doesn't take too much rhetoric spewed as fact. It would be the same as 40 year old men reaffirming to a 16 year old boy that demeaning women is okay.

So my thoughts, experience and actions on street calling are very simple, I dispise it, I condemn it when it happens, and I work to understand why it happens, and apply that theory to education purposes. This involves empowering women to not reinforce a victim mentality by using facts and statistics to enlighten them, and reaffirming to men the impact it can have on a specific section of society.

The fact I have gotten into off scope debates, is due to the dishonesty and misdirection of posters. Once the discussion can be honest, then we can start developing a strategy to counter the problem.

Once of my worst incidents of street aggression, was over 30 years ago, I was about 17.
I was working alone in my mother's shop. Nice day, very quiet so decided to sit outside for a bit, enjoy the sun.
A bloke pulled up in the parking area. He began making sexual comments, I ignored him, hoping someone would turn up, was unsure wether to go back in the shop. When he got to 'do you want to sit on my face' I had to do something, I went back in the shop, luckily he did not follow. I locked up, took his license no, rang the police. He drove off, within a few minutes.
Turned out he was a sales rep, the police went to his firm, he lost his job.
I felt nervous in the shop, for quite a while, he knew where to find me.
Each time, you calculate, how it could pan out, how to react or not.
It is part of who I am. It is in my bones.

Do you i actually forgot what the OP actually was...

I have just had to double check it

So...is catcalling a compliment?

No

Is it unacceotable behaviour

Yes

Fuck me that was easy

Oooh i will throw another one in

How do we stop it/make it unacceptable

Educate the boys/men. For a few years they may need to be "punishments" but they will soon catch on, they are not stupid

Pizan, it is absolutely nothing like your example. You cannot compare Amy sharing her own upsetting experiences and being supported by older women to a 16 year old boy getting validation from older men for treating women like shit.

You are the person trying to derail this thread. Not anyone else.

I work to understand why it happens

The only comment I've seen you make about why it happens is your suggestion that it is down to group dynamics / mob mentality among men. (Unless I've missed something else you said?)

But you then ignored the fact that many posters said they experience this fom lone men.

You appeared to deny that it has anything to do with men wanting to intimidate women or to do with misogyny. But then said that men do it because women are weaker. You don't appear to have delved too deep into why women are perceived as weaker in the public sphere (clue: strength is relevant but it's not the answer), despite being asked a few times.

Your definition of 'working to understand' is somewhat odd to me.

venus

I think pizan is not wanting to talk to Amy becuase the "women should take responsibilty" argument doesnt work with actual children

"...can only hope she doesn't take too much rhetoric spewed as fact". Firstly, that's yet another rude and dismissive comment about women discussing experiences of street harassment and secondly I don't need to as I have the facts of my own experiences of street harassment.

Sorry just to clarify to other posters I meant "don't need to" as I know full well how damaging street harassment is, but it's really good to be able to read so many great women discussing it and articulate so well what I feel on it.

WWA

You have missed some conversation, I have addressed numerous reasons why men do it (not mob mentality btw) in groups and individually.

There are some studies that review how children act toward others in different scenarios, and in all cases of power and dominance shows it is gender neutral. The weak amongst the group are targetted despite their sex.

The same way men cat call women, they verbally abuse weak men, the elderly, as do young women now also. The reports of violent young women are on the rise.

Similarly men do the same thing to men when there is an absence of women, in prison sexual assault if prominant, as is sexual asautl by prison staff. If men hate women, why do men act the same way in the absence of women?

The definition of 'working to understand' is pretty straight forward, I work within the community to understand behaviour.

'Firstly, that's yet another rude and dismissive comment about women'

I think you mean a few posters on this thread. Most women don't state facts that are not correct, and most women don't have an agenda!

You are falling into the echo chamber that is online chat rooms. I emplore you to go and converse with prominant alternative feminists, non femenists and men and empathise with their stories before making your mind up!

that doesn't give any man the right to shout at her, harass her or treat her in any way other than respectfully in any setting.

That's actually interesting and goes back to my earlier points - why does he not have the right ? Or what or who gives women the right ? Can those "rights" be taken away ?

And I don't know if it was just a joke, but if you really are carrying a can of hairspray as a makeshift weapon to protect you from men, you should really speak to a teacher about how you are feeling.

Growapear, you do realise that is often given as "self-defence" advice to women by concerned authority figures on how women can protect themselves from rape. Oh you didn't? Guess it's just one of the many things you don't have to think about.

Why would you think men have a right to harass women?