Cat calling

[Cocklodger]

I'm sure this one has been done to death, I don't frequent the board often tbh.
now I hate catcalling. I'm sure every woman has or will experience it. Its not pleasant. It makes me angry and sometimes it scares me,
But today I've seen a post on FB (with someone of a similar view point to me) being ripped into, because
''Its just a compliment''
she's a ''fun sucker''
''I bet she would've REALLY just asked for his number''... Those comments came from women.
Now I, being me decided to defend this person and found the same comments hurled at me. I've now just left it because I've gotten to the point where I can no longer even try to come up with a coherent argument. I have also received personal insults(about my appearance and the fact I'm obviously a bit fat since I was recently pregnant baby under 2wks old)
i just didn't realize how acceptable it was, I genuinely thought it was wildly noted as pretty fucking annoying (If I'm being generous)
I don't even know what to say.
Wtf is wrong with people?
Can someone please reassure me that I'm not wrong? I know I sound bloody pathetic but for some reason finding out how acceptable it is has actually quite scared and shaken me a lot....

I think what gorwapear is saying is that men have the right to converse and initiate conversation with anyone.

Which brings up the question, what constitutes negative comments, and what constitutes positive comments from strangers to another stranger?

Venus

Also, statistically, there is a greater chance of violence happening to growapear by a stranger than you (I am assuming your female). It really is the victim narrative that reinforces womens fear of being in public.

Piz Whether men do it out of a sense of misogyny or whether they do it because they perceive a weakness, or whether they do it to bolster their status in the group, it all feels a bit moot when you're being told to 'get your tits out, love'.

You say we shouldn't feel like victims. Could you explain, using the stats you say you have, how switching a mindset from 'victim', to 'equal person', will make a difference?

For what it's worth, especially as one gets older, I'm not sure 'victim' is the right word anyway, unless it escalates to serious abuse. Indignation, pissed off, irritated maybe.

Whatever reaction one has, it's certainly usually negative. Can you explain how having a different reaction can alter the behaviour? Using stats.

That is male on male violence. It has nothing to do with male on female sexual violence.

And also, if we do not take "easy, common sense" steps to protect ourselves from rape, many people think we should consider ourselves partially responsible.

Another day, another set of patronising posts. Tra la la.

51- you showed great presence of mind with that incident. Really brave. Not surprised you were worried though

Whether men do it out of a sense of misogyny or whether they do it because they perceive a weakness, or whether they do it to bolster their status in the group, it all feels a bit moot when you're being told to 'get your tits out, love'. Well exactly. I'd probably say, though, that their perception of weakness and misogyny are one and the same thing when it comes to catcalling women.

Datun

You find it moot as the victim, I find it very usefull when trying to solve the problem.

I have 2 questions:

1. Do you want to fix the problem?
2. Do you believe understanding the offender is an important part of reeducating future offenders?

venus

It is male on male violence, but it is related as in it is riskier for a man to be in public than a woman. So the rhetoric of walking a woman to her car is not statistically whats best for the man or the woman, the man is more likely to sexually assault the women, and the man is also more likely to be assaulted in any form than the woman. So by walking to the car herself she and he are both safer. Make sense?

Scallops

So if misogyny is the reason for cat calling, how do you explain when there is an absence of women, men still cat call other men (prison system)?

The more I think about this, the more it's annoying me. I think what piz is saying (although it's difficult to tell) is the chances of one being attacked outside the home are statistically low. Which we all know.

And therefore our fear is more unfounded then we think it is. Which signally fails to take into account the 90% of victims who have been raped inside their home. Telling these people they have no need to fear, because the chances of it happening outside are far less is ridiculous. People don't stop feeling frightened because of a statistically lower than average risk, once they have already been included in the statistically higher than average risk.

If 'managing your fear and repugnance of cat calling' is seriously asking women to disregard their lived experience the author is
focussing on the entirely wrong area.

1) Do you want to fix the problem?
2) Do you believe understanding the offender is an important part of reeducating future offenders?

Yes. What's your answer!

pizan

We are talking about STREET harassment

Prison is nothing to do with it

Actually WE are not talking about it...the vast majority of us are talking about it

Such a weird argument..

OP - i am unhappy with being cat called by men in the street, i find it intimidating and they only ever do it to women

POSTER- well it happens to men in prison

OP - oh thats fine then...i will fuck off shall i?

POSTER - i did not say fuck off...i am using facts and logic, please be honest in the discussion

"So if misogyny is the reason for cat calling, how do you explain when there is an absence of women, men still cat call other men (prison system)?"

Other reasons Pizan . I didn't actually say misogyny was the reason for sexual harassment. I suggested that men perceiving women as weak and misogyny are one and the same thing. But we'll run with that as I think misogyny is a big factor in sexual harassment (the clue is in the name btw).

People can have more than one reason for doing one thing to one person and another thing to another person. So someone who sexually harasses women is a misogynist. Someone who shouts abuse at PoC is a racist. Men who shout at men in the prison system are trying to intimidate them. Maybe it is homophobia. Maybe it is an absence of women that leads them to play out their violence on other perceived weaker men?

With all of those intimidation is a goal.

scallopsrgreat

Perfect.

I'd love to see a bit of software which shows the layer upon layer of reasons why men can be violent.

And how the targets of their violence can simply change their behaviour and magic it away.

But yes, I'm not sure why you are trying to draw parallels with male on male violence in prison (where there is an absence of women - duh!) and male on female intimidation in the street.

Datun

I agree with you and am actively working toward solving the problem! There we agreed on something lol

Rufus

Cat calling is verbal harrassment, using different contexts to judge the same action is perfectly reasonable. If cat calling is misogyny, then prison men who cat call other prison men, gay men who cat call other men, women who cat call men, and lesbians who cat call women are all misogynysts? I'd argue they were all in the same psychological states, the sooner we get to what that is, the sooner we stop it!

Or we could just keep calling misogyny, alienate more men and women from our cause, and succeed in a Trump style reaction to not having an honest debate?

Scallops

How could a man, sexually harrassing another man in prison be homophobia, it's a homosexual act!

I'm not sure who said cat calling was misogynystic now, maybe rufus, but perceiving women as weaker is not misogyny! Women are biologically weaker than men, thats fact, so viewing them as easier targets is perfectlty rational.

In your opinion, how do we stop men from percieving women as easier targets?

I emplore you to go and converse with prominant alternative feminists, non femenists and men and empathise with their stories before making your mind up!

Yes, I should talk to men before deciding if being harassed by men on the street since the age of 14 is wrong.

Incidentally my dad and boys I'm friends with think it's horrific, and actually listen.

As for growapear his desperation for an argument, apparent desire to protect the right of men to harass women and girls and complete lack of any empathy or concern for how it makes many of us feel or awareness of the effects even having been told is abhorrent.

I didnt say it was mysogonistic

I cant even spell it

Have i spelt it right?

PS as a side note, can we not use the term people of colour. I find it offencive to group billions of people and hundreds of differing races into one box, there isn't white and PoC, there are a thousand beautifull versions of the human race, can I ask that we have the respect to use terms that are correct and not trendy? Thanks

Yes, I should talk to men before deciding if being harassed by men on the street since the age of 14 is wrong.

This is my point IAMAMY, 3 billion men on the planet and you don't want to discuss the issue with any of them? How about male rape victims, gay men who have had the same experiences as you, male doctors who treat sexual assault victims...

You already consider men the enemy, and if you continue to do so you will lead a sad, fearfull life! Men are not inherently bad, some are, just like some women are, treat everyone as an individual!

People of Colour isn't 'trendy'. It is a well utilised expression and is used by prominent anti-racism groups. It does tend to be used in America more than the UK, I grant you. We probably use BAME more here.

I'm happy to use whatever terminology you like - what do you feel is the correct terminology?

Rufus

Fraid not...

Misogynistic!

Oh mannnnn!!!

I try not to use words i cant spell

It makes for long posts full of short words

Datun

I agree with you and am actively working toward solving the problem! There we agreed on something lol

Still waiting to hear how ??