Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

[PippaFawcett]

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

she would be written off as one of the many violent women in Britain's prisons.

There really aren't "many violent women" in British prisons. Are you getting this from Donald Trump's Big Book of Alternative Facts?

Only 19% of the 3935 women prisoners were in prison for violent crimes in mid 2015. So 748 women. Compared to a male prison population of between 81 and 82,000 that year of which 30% were in prison for violent crime. 24-25,000.

And as you rightly point out, some women prisoners are actually male.

I'm not so sure Jeska does have a gender recognition certificate. If she did, she would be legally classed as female and the media reports could not have used the word transgender.

she would be written off as one of the many violent women in Britain's prisons.

There really aren't "many violent women" in British prisons. Are you getting this from Donald Trump's Big Book of Alternative Facts?

Only 19% of the 3935 women prisoners were in prison for violent crimes in mid 2015. So 748 women. Compared to a male prison population of between 81 and 82,000 that year of which 30% were in prison for violent crime. 24-25,000.

And as you rightly point out, some women prisoners are actually male.

Sorry, double posting fail

If sex work is a factor then wouldn't the comparison be women prostitutes verses transwomen prostitutes because women sex workers have a much higher rate of being murdered than 'non sex worker women'

Yes, I think that's a relevant comparison.

Agreed, Dicktophone. I was just trying to pre-empt the obvious rejoinder by making it myself.

So you reckon the figures shown that America 'only' murders black transgender people at about the same rate as other black people?

I think it's hard to make any meaningful extrapolation about a cohort of 14 murder victims who have other risk factors for murder.

We need to stop all this dancing on eggshells.

Angels dancing on eggshells on the head of a pin. Sums it all up.

Well I'm not sure tbh. The raw numbers are fairly small.

And you need statistics to find the number of black transgender. Transing is frequently a response to homophobia (see Iran, Indonesia, etc.). Lots of black communities are VERY homophobic.

According to stats the US trans community breaks down as 55% white, 16% black, 21% Latino, 8% other (vs. 65%, 12%, 15%, 8% for the wider population).

Anyway generally around half of murder victims are black. ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-2

So around 4 times the underlying population. So we'd expect 64% of transgender murder victims to be black. Looking at the pictures here: broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/hes-not-done-killing-her-why-so-many-trans-women-were-murdered-in-2015 it seems the rate is even higher than that.

But I'm pretty sure that's not about Jenni Murray or Trump bathroom laws, but if it's anything, homophobia among black people. Although you can't say that for sure without adjusting further, there are many obvious factors that may result in no net difference

"The majority (13) of the 23 trans women killed in 2015 were under 25 years old. "

"Black trans women were 44 percent more likely to engage in sex work than their white counterparts. Latina trans women were 33 percent more likely"

Young black men are something like 100x more likely to be murdered than say, old white women. So if disproportionate number of transwomen are young, then the murder rates will be higher.

Either way I would say

(a) this has nothing to do with Britain
(b) transwomen as a whole are not at special risk
(c) if there is an at risk group it is specifically young black transwomen, but then young black men are also at risk.

so whaddya know, white men exhibit white male privilege when becoming transwomen. see Caitlyn Jenner, Dannielle Muscato, etc. etc.

Also posted this on the AIBU Gender Identity Bill thread but I've been thinking more about this:

Trans politics is deeply contradictory but my take on it is that transwomen are transwomen and no one needs to be ashamed of that, to hide that or pretend otherwise. To do so is in fact erasing transwomen and so should be considered transphobic.

And how the current gender laws are extremely transphobic.

We should be making it easier for people to be trans men and women and be proud of their trans-ness, there should no shame, why the need for complicity in law to hide the past?

Gender reassignment is already a protected characteristic, we need to step up and make sure transpeople are recognised and celebrated, not tidied in their 'correct' gender boxes with their past erased like some kind of dirty secret.

It's here CoolJazz: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2873086-To-be-terrified-about-what-will-happen-if-the-Gender-Identity-Bill-is-passed

Have cut and pasted your post onto the AIBU thread CoolJazz

Karen Ingala-Smith records trans women in counting dead women. When I last looked there was 1 in the UK over the time she's been recording. One.
It's why I struggle with transgender day of remembrance. Because there just doesn't seem to that many to remember and I think it's cynical and irresponsible to give trans people the impression they could be murdered at any time when the stats don't suggest that at all.

Conversely bringing up the murder rate for women results in being told it isn't a problem because it's worse for men and we are being hysterical go figure

calgaryherald.com/news/crime/repeat-child-molester-told-she-must-reside-in-halfway-house-following-release

odd

This calling criminal transwomen 'she' is really pissing me off.

Even though you know it's a man, the constant female pronoun still warps the perception as you read. You have to keep translating it back to 'he' in your head.

Bloody hell.

How did he get away with competing in women's races for so long? It's obvious he's male. Why did none of the other women runners complain? Bonkers.

Plainly premeditated attempt at murder - driving 100 miles with knives in bag? You can't blame that on autism, and it's cynical in the extreme for his lawyer to do that.

www.plymouthherald.co.uk/plymouth-transgender-sex-offender-jailed-coming/story-28509278-detail/story.html

www.huffingtonpost.com/courtney-odonnell/paula-witherspoon-transgender-sex-offender_b_1521938.html

www.dailybreeze.com/general-news/20170208/transgender-woman-sentenced-to-prison-for-sex-acts-with-teen-boys-in-torrance

4thwavenow.com/2015/10/09/transgender-youth-group-leader-charged-with-rape-and-strangulation-of-a-minor/

theothermccain.com/2015/04/17/transgender-sex-offenders-feminists-advocate-allisons-law-to-protect-public/

Galivanting - there are males/TW competing in female sports - it's allowed.

Fallon Fox fights females in MMA

Laurel Hubbard (TW) has just been chosen for the NZ national squad for women's weightlifting - replacing Tracy Lambrechts who held the national records till Hubbard broke them after recently transitioning.

It's already happening and the women athletes can do nothing about it. I'd love to know what our well known athletes are really saying about it.

This is why language is important and it is part of the brainwashing. I refuse to use she. I've noticed recently that I have a tendency now to use "transwoman" whereas before I used MTT. It's pervasive and insidious this trans ideology Orwellian speak. I'm going to go back to using MTT.

Having read about child sex offender Harke, I want to say again that we urgently need an investigation in rates of offending of MTTs. There has been that study showing that it is the same as that for males who do not transition but it increasing looks as though it could be higher. Certainly considering the number and seriousness of the offences I think we are more than justified in asking for an independent investigation.

beachcomber

This is from the same Swedish study that established an identical male pattern criminality between transwomen and men.

"Transsexual individuals had been hospitalized for psychiatric morbidity other than gender identity disorder prior to sex reassignment about four times more often than controls."

"Transsexual individuals were at increased risk of being convicted for any crime or violent crime after sex reassignment (Table 2); this was, however, only significant in the group who underwent sex reassignment before 1989".

I don't know what the significance of 1989 is. Except they studied two groups.