Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

[PippaFawcett]

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

Bambambini - in the UK , sports organisations are still permitted to disallow people (men) from competing in sports on the basis of gender reassignment. It's one of the exceptions. But the onus is on the organisation to prove it would be unfair to let a mtt compete against wonen/girls.

I'll post what I found written in Hansard when this was last devated, once on a proper computer and nit on my phone. The wording is interesting and something we could quote in letters to MPs.

Notafish - I'd be interested. Seems insane that eg Fallon Fox is allowed to compete against women. This is what Wiki had to say about Fox's fight v Brents:

"During Fox's fight against Tamikka Brents, Brents suffered a concussion, an orbital bone fracture, and seven staples to the head in the 1st round. After her loss, Brents took to social media to convey her thoughts on the experience of fighting Fox: “I've fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right,” she stated. “Her grip was different, I could usually move around in the clinch against other females but couldn’t move at all in Fox’s clinch."

Most men are bigger and stronger and have an unfair advantage over women.

Gallivanting I can't describe my sense of alarm and disbelief and sadness about Fallon Fox. A misogynist man legitimately, beating up the strongest woman in a ring in front of everyone - just like that. Such an act of male dominance and woman-hating.

It is so obvious that it is XY chromosomes and not just testosterone that gives males the advantage in sport. Otherwise you wouldn't get these androgen-insensitive XY intersex people who have been raised as female showing abnormal abilities in sports for a female even though they can't process testosterone.

TentPegsAndWetWipes

What is it about androgen insensitivity that produces an advantage?

Is that part of the testing?

Androgen insensitivity doesn't give the advantage. Some intersex people don't know they are XY until they are teenagers. Although they are XY, their insensitivity to androgens is the reason they didn't develop into obvious boys in the womb and are classified as female at birth. So they can't process the testosterone, etc. A number of intersex athletes who didn't know they weren't female have had a humiliating time of it, because their unusual abilities and appearance has called into question their right to compete as females and they'very been subjected to testing. However, even if internal testes and XY chromosomes are found, they are sometimes allowed to compete as females because of lower testosterone. Although I hate to give intersex people any more crap to deal with, I think there is something about XY that gives males the advantage - not just higher testosterone levels.

Beach

I think you're right about the insidious nature of the language. People are hearing "transwomen" and subconsciously getting the message that they are indeed women.

Ok thanks. Yes, it's a tricky one.

venus I've been thinking that we should call transwomen 'transgendered males' and transmen 'transgendered females' so that it is clear that sex is a fact that cannot be changed, but acknowledging their belief in and commitment to gender out of respect.

I've just seen on the other thread that the CPS is telling schoolchildren that 'outing someone as transgender is a hate crime'.

I had no idea that 'saying someone is male' was a hate crime. I am now officially weirded out -- and probably a criminal. Shucks.

Mind you, it might mean that the SAGE test is also guilty of hate crimes for telling most of Mumsnet that they are obviously transgender?

Transgender peoples crimes should really be recorded seperately from everyone elses as it really does seem that their offending rates are above average for even their natal sex. Of course it may well be that trans crimes are nearly always reported on where male crimes are not unless they are exceptionally horrid. Either way, no WAY should crimes by any kind of male be logged a as female crime. And it is irresponsible of papers and such to report transwomens crimes as 'womens' without clarifying the 'trans' part as its giving people the impression that out of nowhere we have a bunch of females committing violent crimes and sex offenses.

I don't know why we can't call some of these offenders exactly what they are, crossdressers or transvestites.

Oddsockspissmeoff

Do you ever hang out on Gendertrender?

No. I've read the odd article.

If you get to the point where you can fill your blood pressure rising, it's a good antidote.

*feel

It already is. I keep saying to myself I need to stop reading these threads as they make me so angry. I'd previously believed the guff about women being trapped in men's bodies. I don't know if I should say this really but it disturbs me when a man comes on here saying they are trans and people say oh I didn't mean you, I wouldn't mind you in my bathroom because you're ok.

I don't want to be in any space with a man who is so mentally ill he thinks he's a woman.

I do worry though when our righteous rage against the likes of Fallon and Lauren leads us to use hurtful language about other transpeople. I wouldn't want to upset tumble for example by using language she is uncomfortable switch and 'other ing' her unnecessarily, as a reaction to people who she is nothing like, IYSWIM.
When I read the last few comments about 'transgendered males' cross dressers and transvestites it concerns me that people like tumble will get caught up in that language, and hurt by it. I recognise where you are coming from with it, but I don't think it quite works, IMO.

Well, I know what you mean. However, a few pertinent questions are usually very revealing.

The interesting thing about Gendertrender is that if anyone trans does comment, the site assumes from the off that they are dodgy. They call it out immediately and I have never yet seen a response that didn't involve a shed load of violent abuse.

Of course, it could be that the site attracts the more dubious trans-poster. But so far the hit rate is 100%.

Tumble is a biological male with a penis.

picklemepopcorn

I know what you mean too! Of course there are going to be some terribly nice people who are trans.

But because I think the ideology is based on the completely wrong premise, the justifications for it, however well-intentioned, will often expose that.

Gender dysphoria is real and quite crippling. It doesn't mean that you are a woman. I have every sympathy for someone with gender dysphoria and can completely understand how presenting as the opposite sex alleviates the symptoms.

I don't however feel any recognition in them that they are women, nor do I feel any affinity coming from them for women.

Hmm. I'm going to have to reserve judgement. Tumble knows she is not a biological woman. I'm not comfortable with talking about her more specifically than that, as I may misremember the things she has said and accidentally misrepresent her. I would not want to use language about her which makes her unhappy. I know she does not wish to marginalise women and is opposed to the current state of trans ideology.

I do want to prevent the likes of Fallon and Lauren colonising my sex. IYSWIM.

The wider world will hit peak trans soon, won't it? Won't it?

I don't however feel any recognition in them that they are women, nor do I feel any affinity coming from them for women

This

My patience with the whole thing has been utterly exhausted. As far as I'm concerned now any 'genuine' transwomen who wants any empathy from me can stand with women and help to put a stop to this crap. Be part of the solution or you're part of the problem.