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Original poster

Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

406 replies

PippaFawcett · 22/09/2016 19:40

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

OP posts:
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RakingUpBadMemories · 15/03/2017 13:25

We don't know whether she felt her life was not worth living.

We do know that she felt the official's life was not worth living.

We can't know whether her testosterone levels were low enough to be acceptable.

We do know that she had refused testing.

I'd go for something a bit stronger than 'not approving' of what she did. How about 'finding it appalling'?

AssassinatedBeauty · 15/03/2017 13:30

Ralph Knibbs nearly died, and was incredibly brave to fight off his attacker. The other people who rushed to help him were equally brave and saved his life. He has permanent life altering injuries as a result of Lauren Jeska's actions. There is no justification for those actions whatsoever. Do you have any sympathy or concern for the victim here?

As far as I'm aware, there was an issue over Jeska not providing samples, and the issue came to a head because there was the possibility of international selection. I think the female competitors who lost out to Jeska should at least be able to know if Jeska's testosterone levels were within the allowed limits.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/03/2017 13:30

Why is this about someone else wanting to cash in when the fact was Jeska had failed to give the necessary blood samples? Surely if Jeska's testosterone levels were so low there would be no reason to refuse.
Besides, fairness in sport isn't solely about testosterone at the time of competing: do you really not think that having a male bone structure, with the longer legs of a biological man, would be an advantage in fell running?!

Datun · 15/03/2017 13:33

subjected to the indignity of further tests because someone, somewhere, wanted to cash in on her transsexuality.

She wasn't going to have further tests, she hadn't complied with the previous tests. She had won awards without complying with drug testing. The man she killed said she had to comply or she wasn't entitled to the awards. I'm not sure how this is 'cashing in' on anything.

Datun · 15/03/2017 13:33

*nearly killed.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/03/2017 13:34

I also don't understand why you're talking as if what Jeska did was a suicide attempt when it wasn't. It was attempted murder.
Nothing to lose by taking another person with her - well no, not if you are completely self centred and the other person and their loved ones don't hold any weight for you whatever.
Please don't attempt to give Jeska or anyone else a free pass for violence for being trans.

Datun · 15/03/2017 13:37

If her testerone level was within the legal limit, she just complies with the testing. Job done. No need to put three kitchen knives in your bag and go and stab a man in the neck.

StrangeAdventure · 15/03/2017 13:59

TheCountessofFitzdotterel
Are you seriously suggesting that athletes should be x-rayed before competing, and disqualified if their legs are longer than some arbitrary limit? Or their pelvises are narrower? Or perhaps people of african descent should be disqualified from distance running because many of them are quite good at it?

I am pleased for you that you have never known what it is like to feel so utterly and completely miserable that life ceases to have any value for you. Most trans people have... but we get over it when we transition. I can understand what it must feel like to have that misery revived by a specific individual. I don't agree that what Jeska did was "right" -- or even that it was sensible, or reasonable. But I can empathise with the mental turmoil she must have been suffering, and I am dismayed that this sad story is being used to whip up even more anti-trans feeling, so as to make more people suffer in the same way.

StrangeAdventure · 15/03/2017 14:05

Datun:
According to the Guardian, she had Gender Reassignment Surgery in 2000. So she doesn't have testicles (which produce lots of Testosterone), nor does she have ovaries (which produce the lower levels of testosterone found in non-trans women.

So for the past 17 years, her body has been incapable of creating testosterone.

AssassinatedBeauty · 15/03/2017 14:06

So total sympathy for the perpetrator and zero sympathy/empathy for the victim.

Sport is categorised by sex for a reason. A man and woman of the same height and weight have inevitable differences because of their sex. If you think those differences are irrelevant then presumably you would agree with there being no sex segregation in sport at all?

Datun · 15/03/2017 14:10

So for the past 17 years, her body has been incapable of creating testosterone

Afraid not.

"Prosecuting, Richard Atkins QC told the court she became embroiled in the dispute with UK Athletics and failed to produce samples of her testosterone levels."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39266777

Datun · 15/03/2017 14:13

I am pleased for you that you have never known what it is like to feel so utterly and completely miserable that life ceases to have any value for you.

Five minutes on mumsnet will show you that many, many people feel like this. However advice on attempted murder is neither sought nor given. It's not generally considered an effective treatment for depression.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/03/2017 14:15

I think you're mistaking my post for another one, StrangeAdventure, probably one in your head.
I am also more than a bit worried you don't seem to know the difference between wanting to kill yourself and trying to kill other people.
Quite a lot of people experience the former. Happens to non-trans people too, you know. Not so many do the latter, but Jeska did and I think your attitude that it was all perfectly understandable stinks.
Stop making excuses for violence.

MercyMyJewels · 15/03/2017 14:21

Because they have had difficult lives they get to win sports prizes? This really is the oppression olympics? Can we round up all the child abuse victims and people on Prozac and let them run the 100m freestyle with 'privileged' athletes who will run the egg and spoon race against them

Why don't we ban all separation of categories in sport then? Bet the transwomen wouldn't like that though, cos they would be competing against MALE competitors so not so easy to win.

What a crock of steaming horse shit this all is

aginghippy · 15/03/2017 14:27

Ralph Knibbs nearly died after Lauren Jeska stabbed him in the head and neck. He suffered a stroke during the attack and was left with permanent partial blindness and nerve damage. What kind of misery must he have felt? Tim Begley and Kevan Taylor came to his aid and were also injured.

I'll save my sympathy for them.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 15/03/2017 14:38

It good that you dont approve of murder though strange Smile

Just trying to look for the positives there

Oddsockspissmeoff · 15/03/2017 14:39

But I can empathise with the mental turmoil she must have been suffering,

Ffs. Your post is really disturbing. Ill keep my empathy for Ralph knibbs.

Datun · 15/03/2017 14:40

I'm sure strange is long gone.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 15/03/2017 14:41

Nah datun

I am sure strange is watching...always watching

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 15/03/2017 14:42

Actually ive frightened myself now

Datun · 15/03/2017 14:45

That made me laugh Rufus and not in a hollow, supulchral way.

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 14:50

Wow StrangeAdventure, you've really helped confirm that some tw have no empathy for anyone else and a pathological desire to ensure that everyone else sees them as female, even if it means trying to stab someone to death. Why didn't Jeska give the samples if T levels are apparently so low? And hormones don't change bone structure btw. I can't believe you didn't even pretend to think that what jeska did was unforgivable and completely unwarranted, to say the least.

ageingrunner · 15/03/2017 14:52

Ralph Knibbs is a person of principle who wanted to make sure no one had an unfair advantage, unlike Jeska, who wanted the try and maintain their advantage at any cost.

picklemepopcorn · 15/03/2017 14:56

Strange, I understand that your experiences lead you to fellow feeling for Lauren. In most areas of life I have no quibble at all with transgender folk. In the sporting arena though, surely the physiological differences btn those who have grown up and make and female have to be recognised? Even with hormone treatment (I am glad it helps you feel better by the way) those born male will have physical advantages against women. Not all women, but most women. That can't be fair can it? It's like having a twelve year old in the under tens.

For Lauren to react with such rage toward the man who questioned whether she complied with guidelines, takes her beyond my sympathy.

AssassinatedBeauty · 15/03/2017 15:02

As far as I'm aware, the athletics body were only checking that Jeska's testosterone was within permitted limits for women and transwomen. They weren't about to invalidate all Jeska's results because Jeska is transgender, it was because of the lack of submitted samples.