Just a bit of a question not a judgement about the boards

[FallenThroughTheRabitHole]

I tend to go between various topics to see what others are saying. If I'm being honest the large part of my time here is spent in either Chat, AIBU or Relationships. I know those topics aren't a representation of MNet as a whole but you go where you go nonetheless.
I was just wondering if anyone had come across responses to various threads in which they thought "What on earth!?"

On the relationships board I've often found the 'Tell it like it is' clan, who often, if not always, have nothing better to offer than variations of 'LTB' are rife and are never actually helpful in way of advice or support.

Chat is normally relaxed... and AIBU is usually set up for a flaming of sorts. This is the internet after all so no-one should be losing sleep but I've always wondered how this would appear from a feminist perspective - The advice we are offering each other here.

I'm not complaining about these boards as I've often found a lot of supportive advice but one comment that hit me was someone saying that they couldn't believe the amount of ingrained misogyny on various threads.

Surely if AF felt attacked, she doesnt need everyone else to derail the thread in her defense. Never noticed her to be incapable standing her ground.

Derailing is what gets me. I sometimes wish for a Reddit type system so I could closed down whole branches sidebattles between a pair or a few posters with issues over each others or the OPs phrasing. Arguments over barely connected subjects. And trollhunters.

The LTB crowd serves a useful purpose. OPs rarely come on here the first, second or 20th time they feel as if they have been treated wrongly. They come after they have tolerated and turned a blind eye and accepted the blame for Years. They come here when their spirit is making a last ditch effort to save their body, and they finally have trouble convincing themselves that things are fine, or would be if only they . Many of them have been socialised by being raised a girl in general, by bad parents, by a less than progressive collection of friends and relations and by their abuser to believe they must be in the wrong, and they cant do anything about it, especially leave. Being told, again and again and again that they are in a bad position and need to escape is what they need. If their abuser has isolated them they will consistently not find that support in RL.

Sometimes it seems like they are being told to leave over something trite. Sometimes they rise up and defend their dp and stomp off realising maybe they were overreacting to whatever incident, after they received such shocking advice they realised they werent in that bad a situation. I was in a support group at one stage in my life and that message was what eventually got through to me, the other women round the room, and their children, were suffering, really suffering due to the actions of their partners. My problems paled in comparison and my mountains were more clearly molehills, that I could deal with. But in other cases, the longer the thread goes on, more evidence of OP having twisted herself in knots for years comes to light. Eventually, a small number of posters remain with practical, real world advice on the technicalities and legalities of LTB.

In some cases, a few examples of partners beginning to behave differently during wedding planning come to mind, there may be women who are saved from getting trapped, by hearing the truth of other women who did.

I think the OP just likes being able to keep repeating "Pagwatch is a twat" in such a way as to avoid deletion. Which is kind of childish really.

My sister's a witch btw. And she does post on MN occasionally. Not on FWR though.

Oh and: beautifully put, Momagain1.

IME 'LTB' is hardly every actually said on Relationships - it is pointed out that nobody can change how somebody else choses to behave and that they can only chose to change their own response to a partner's abusive behaviour. And of course that often means to have to leave.
Other than that 'LTB' is quite a funny acronym when used on silly threads "DH likes purple ties, shall I LTB?" Chorus of "Yes, you must". I accept, I am easily amused.

And what Monagain said

I'll come right out and say it: Pag's a twat

I'm on holiday. Have very probably had too much gin. But I really don't understand your problem/point/issue OP.

Spit it out so that we can either tell you you're wrong or we can all agree with you and get on with the gin.

Nah, OP has flounced (at the third attempt).

Annie 4th attempt?? And no I don't get a cheap high from being as childish as you'd like to presume I am.

Pag the reason I was trying to clarify was because of this very thread (see above comment to Annie). I don't want my meaning to be misconstrued again. That's why I'm making sure. I know you don't perceive it that way but others might.

BIWI I say get on with the gin! Tis much more conducive than this thread.

Momagain1 I agree, if she felt attacked she is more than capable to stand her ground without the various posters who seem intent on extrapolating and joining in a witch hunt with stakes at the ready!

Jux Your post: Why is it always a witch hunt? I like witches, and wouldn't hunt them Made me laugh! I'm not very 'woo' but like that post a lot!

TBR It's only sad that you see what you want to see. You read into what you want (or choose) to read into. I can't help you with that.

I probably deserve a medal for having managed to confuse the majority of FC posters!

For the record again! I'm not saying 'LTB' is wrong where needs be, but it is wrong in the context of making the OP feel like an idiot.

gordonramsayangry.tumblr.com/post/93878354179/volithia-my-thoughts-exactly

ok, fuck it. I clearly can't stay away.

I must first admit that I do stand by every single word and post I have made. I totally do. And I make no bones about it.

TBR If you see my post further above I have said that I often do disagree where necessary or just don't but provide an alternative. MN isn't a battle ground! You're not quite right in your assumption that everyone was confused! Some posters did respond understanding what I was saying, but others chose to jump onto a band wagon. Be it a mob mentality or witch hunt... I don't know because I've never been one to go along with the crowd for the sake of it. I have repeatedly asked what part of my post(s) were / are confusing because I am more than willing to clarify.

Crikey Fallen.
You are still making no sense at all, your relies show you don't understand my posts at all.
Why not just have a gin and call it quits?

I don't like gin - unless with tonic Pag I'm more of a white wine girl myself. But I will call it quits. I can't get my head around this type of bullying and mob mentality. This isn't a school playground but I accept that perhaps these things do carry on into adulthood.

Could everyone not write this whole thread off as a massive, confusing misunderstanding?

Because I think everyone on here, including the OP, has interesting feminist stuff in their heads, and this thread has just gone a bit wrong.

OP, I hope you come back and post about stuff in this section in the future.

How likely do you think that is, almondcakes?

almond I doubt I will tbh. I'd rather catch you on another thread and discuss there. This whole thread has gone wayward which was not my intention but I cannot control the thoughts and actions of others.
It has become a witch hunt fuelled by a sort of mob mentality. I'm not that way inclined and never have been. I personally thank you for your contribution and reiterate that you are indeed a highly articulate individual. But now it's become a case of 'batten down the hatches' for me. I don't want this. But I do stand by every single word I have written.

Fallen, honestly the reason you're getting the responses you're getting is that nobody understands what you're trying to discuss.

I get the bit about it's easier to say LTB than do it, but then wouldn't your OP be better off saying 'can we discuss the issue of giving advice that's hard to take' or something?

I don't get what feminism, misogyny and other random board mentions are about, no connection as far as I can make out.

Or did you want to discuss something else? If so, what?

OK, I'm going to be brave and pick out the first thing I didn't really understand.

I've always wondered how this would appear from a feminist perspective - The advice we are giving each other here.

Now this, I am sure, is because I don't frequent the feminist board. I occasionally do lurk here, but the threads seem to rapidly become things I don't understand, or don't have time to think about. Nevertheless, I read the op and hoped I'd get some idea. Obviously, that didn't happen.

It seemed that in one post the LTBers were being criticised (though my exerience is that they are very rarely wrong once a poster's life has been looked at more deeply) and various other criticismswere being slung about, but mostly it wasn't clear to me what the subject of the thread was, what the OP wanted to say - which seemed to be either contradicted by her next post or explained in ways I simply couldn't make head or tail of.

There. Thicko that I am. The shame is almost more than I can stand

I did say up thread the best thing might be if the OP regroup, organise her thought and try again. And I have gin.

But that was taken as being part of a 'bullying' thing. So it's hard to see a way to get any movement forward.

I think the whole board dynamic is fascinating. Im not sure the ways in which the boards were caricatured in the op is a good springboard for that though.
If you want to discuss the feminist perspective of group responses, you can't discuss it if you , for example, suggest that a thoughtless hoard roam relationships mindlessly suggesting posters kick their partners out. Because I don't think that happens so the basic premise is flawed.

Or something.

(Never went to uni)

I know this is going to come across as petulant but I am getting really tired of having to suck it up and accept the shit that gets thrown at posters on here.

If I was to list every insult thrown at FWR posters in the last week, it'd be a pretty long list. It's clear that we are never going to get past the erroneous notions people have about this section and the posters on it.

I'm all for taking any poster at face value initially but when everyone is tiptoeing around desperate not to cause offence, there's no meaningful discussion about feminism going on. We're so apologetic to those who insult us that we're being shut down as we all try to disprove a crappy stereotype that isn't true in the first place.

I'll be perfectly pleasant to anyone who wishes to engage but I'm fucked if I going to roll out the welcome mat to all those who come here with an agenda or preconceived notion about what a bear pit this is.

And I am not going to be called a bully or watch others be denigrated unfairly just to keep the peace.

Sorry, almond, I know you're being entirely reasonable and I appreciate your efforts but posters have to accept the consequences of their posts and appreciate that harm can be a two way street. Quite why anyone thinks feminists are immune from being hurt and offended is beyond me.

Sorry, almond, I know you're being entirely reasonable and I appreciate your efforts but posters have to accept the consequences of their posts and appreciate that harm can be a two way street. Quite why anyone thinks feminists are immune from being hurt and offended is beyond me.

Anyone can be hurt and offended - and harm can be a 2 way street. There are consequences to posts - even when people don't suspect it.

You might find it relevant as some of it talks about accelerators - where person X says something person or group Y might not like, and a whole load of people attack person X who are not in group Y - accelerators

Indeed. Happens a lot. Pile in and some people feel mobbed out and stop contributing.

I suppose that's what internet activism is like.

Dear God, though, Orlando, people should have some principle to hold on to.