Just a bit of a question not a judgement about the boards

[FallenThroughTheRabitHole]

I tend to go between various topics to see what others are saying. If I'm being honest the large part of my time here is spent in either Chat, AIBU or Relationships. I know those topics aren't a representation of MNet as a whole but you go where you go nonetheless.
I was just wondering if anyone had come across responses to various threads in which they thought "What on earth!?"

On the relationships board I've often found the 'Tell it like it is' clan, who often, if not always, have nothing better to offer than variations of 'LTB' are rife and are never actually helpful in way of advice or support.

Chat is normally relaxed... and AIBU is usually set up for a flaming of sorts. This is the internet after all so no-one should be losing sleep but I've always wondered how this would appear from a feminist perspective - The advice we are offering each other here.

I'm not complaining about these boards as I've often found a lot of supportive advice but one comment that hit me was someone saying that they couldn't believe the amount of ingrained misogyny on various threads.

I have just read the thread and I don't really understand the point you are trying to make.

As a general principle I think if you object to the tone of a board the best response is to articulate your issues when the posts that bother you are made. A thread criticising tone is ultimately a bit pointless.

I also think your post is hard to understand because you are struggling to just openly say what you really mean. I suspect that is because it would involve criticising individual posters so you are trying to speak in generalities when your irritation is privately quite specific.
But I may be wrong.

I'm confused too, but my thoughts on relationships boards.

When I first joined mumsnet, about 9 years ago I think, the honesty on the relationship boards, I found very helpful, I've not started threads on there, but sometimes, something will be posted that happens in my marriage, and because posters say the honest truth, it helped me to gain confidence to speak to dh about things that bother me. If everything was "maybe hi didn't mean it" type comments, I'd just accept things and not try to change anything. I've learned it's ok to have my own boundaries and limits, and that has been invaluable.

OP when you said "a certain poster" it does look you are talking about a specific person, which is unfair.

On here you can't bombarded or derail a thread by taking up an issue without being deleted.

Would that it were so...

OP, sorry you've had to endure all the personal attacks. Just try to keep in mind that the posters are not acting as individuals; you're dealing with a "group" tactic -- which employs known (but still hurtful) techniques. Feminism chat is, apparently, only for adherents to academic feminist theory and its specific vocabulary and politics and not a place for "outsiders" who (foolishly) believe that they themselves are feminists!

Yup, lala, we are the Borg. We can't even go to the loo separately, that's how meshed our tiny ladybrains are.

I don't see what the OP, or any of our replies, has to do with 'academic feminist theory'. Is 'LTB' super-secret Harvard jargon? I don't think so.

The issue is the OP is bent on ignoring anyone who doesn't recognise her covert digs (which I didn't), and doesn't want a general debate. She's only replying to people who've sussed she wants to make a personal attack, and that makes for a pretty unpleasant thread.

If she wanted a general debate, she could've had it.

FFS disingenuous much? You're obviously talking about AF and your attitude is disgusting.

I do want to add that, in all fairness and with all sincerity, that since this is a thread for solidarity and support for feminists and not a place for debate and bringing in problems or criticism of aspects of accepted feminism that surely there is a way to make that more clear without these types of recurring altercations. But that is, of course, not up to me.

I'm not going to upset myself anymore or draw any more attention to myself by posting on Feminism at all again , period. My views (and many are very strong and based on my specific outlook . . . plus I don't feel the deadly seriousness about all aspects of it that many here do) are really not in sync with the majority in dealing with overall theory. I don't like making a spectacle of myself and have no desire to constantly go against the flow of a conversation. Perhaps there really is a huge divide between cultures and experiences, so that my opinions and beliefs have no meaning for the posters here, anyway.

I use MN via active convos. I'm not part of a group tactic.

I just spotted this thread and don't really understand what the intention of the thread is.
If posters have an issue with posting styles on relationships why not post the criticism there or in site stuff?

lala, the OP didn't say it was a support thread - I think she did claim she wanted to debate (it's in the title of the thread).

If you want a support thread, have you tried the pub?

Cross post.

pag, at risk of sounding like more of the Borg, I thought your post was a fair summary, and I don't very often see you round here so I can't see you being in on any (fictional?) group tactics.

Yep, I flit around. This op is just a criticism couched as a debate. Why not go on to relationship and criticise the posters there - if that's what you feel you need to do.

I genuinely don't understand what the purpose is.

A couple of things strike me. One is that there is already a very nuanced, helpful and informative thread running at the moment on the relationships board (with a lot of input from people who've managed to escape from abusive relationships) about the shortcomings of "LTB" when not supplemented with other advice. The consensus seems to be what one should say is "what practical and emotional support would help you, in your circumstances, to LTB?" And sometimes the answers to this may be "there is nothing, because the system is so stacked against women in my position" (for instance a poster who feels like she can deflect her partner's physical violence onto herself and away from the children when she is there 24/7, but fears that if she left him, he'd get unsupervised access to them every other weekend and she feels she'd then be powerless to protect them). And the fact that the system is so stacked against her is a feminist issue.

But OP hasn't chosen to post on that thread, she's come over here to post vague and unsubstantiated complaints about the nature of other boards. Then had a go at an identifiable poster.

The other thing that strikes me is that MNHQ have come on to post their "ahem" message, but been noticeably absent from the horrible pile on thread which took place a few days ago, where a poster clearly in a vulnerable place, looking for a safe place to work through her issues, got an absolute kicking.

I don't understand the OP and 4 pages later I still don't! !

What is the question OP?

"OP, sorry you've had to endure all the personal attacks. Just try to keep in mind that the posters are not acting as individuals; you're dealing with a "group" tactic -- which employs known (but still hurtful) techniques."

The OP hasn't been the subject of personal attacks. She's been criticised for personally attacking another poster, sometimes overtly and then covertly.

It is really shitty to imply that people are acting in some sort of conspiracy to pile on. People are expressing their individual views and if they happen to agree with each other maybe it's because the reason they agree on so much is er... because they individually have come to the same conclusion.

No-one's using any fucking tactics or techniques, it's an outright slur to use that expression. Deliberately. Using slurs is a tactic or a technique btw.

What is the second post on this thread if not a personal attack?

2nd post a personal attack?

I think you need to read the MN guidelines on what a personal attack is.

Asking a perfectly valid question about why this topic is here, isn't a personal attack, unless you phrase it something like "Why are you a poo-headed moron?" In this instance, it's actually reasonable because as so many posters have said, no fucker actually knows what the bloody thread is about or what the OP wants to discuss because she's been so circumspect about it.

Personal attacks is when you personally insult someone. Mumsnet have actually been quite clear that you have to specifically insult specific posters (which is why so many goady fuckers get away with saying personally insulting things about generalised" mumsnet feminists" on a regular basis). That second post is not a personal attack, but if you genuinely believe it is, by all means report it to MN and see how far you get. I've reported far more insulting stuff than that and been told it's not a PA.

messy I flounced a while ago

No personal attacks from me and didn't want to come across that way. I think it's possible and perfectly acceptable to disagree with an opinion without making it into more than it is. Obviously hasn't come across here.
Pag
Why not go on to relationship and criticise the posters there
When I disagree with a poster's option (on whatever board) I post my own view or even if I agree I often second their view. I don't criticise posters on a personal level, I can't see how it is possible to make a personal dig about someone you have never met and in all likelihood will never meet.
I'm not academic either, infact I've enrolled in another Master's which I'm starting to regret but any time I write an essay I have to constantly refer to my 'Beginners guide to referencing' book and I still don't get it!

Hmm, that's a bit slippery tbh.

The point I was making is that you have a problem with posts on the relationship board.
My question is why do you not raise that there?

Pag That's too much of sweeping statement!
My answer is that I do . If someone says something I disagree with I tell them that I disagree with their view and why and if I don't I just offer my own view and be done with. I wouldn't however see a post of yours in Relationships or anywhere else and say "Pag, you're obviously a twat." I just wouldn't. Threads aren't there to accommodate in-fighting.

Nope, I don't understand the question either.

'Internet forum mainly used by women tends to give advice slanted towards feminism' - well, hold the presses!

To be fair I find plenty of anti-feminist stuff on MN too, from ingrained societal presses (see the pint of beer thread) to v frankly misogynistic threads.

If you find the advice on Relationships unhelpful or you don't need relationship advice, then why take issue what is being said there? I don't understand.

I have frequently thought 'what on earth?!' when reading something here, but that may have been in shock, in horror, in amazement or in delight, so again, I don't see how that is a problem.

I still believe this is possibly a huge misunderstanding.

OP, on the one hand, you seem to want to discuss how we can support women online in a feminist way. That's a topic that interests me, but I'm still not sure what points about feminist support you are trying to make. I think you want to discuss something more widely than the relationship board and LRB, but I'm not sure what.

On the other hand, you've made a few posts about it being one particular poster (unnamed) and at one point named AnyFucker. So now I'm not sure if you mean AnyFucker, or you are about to reveal who this one poster is, and then I'm contributing to a complaint thread about some other person. Either way, I'm uncomfortable.

And that is where the confusion arises. And if you didn't mean to single people out, and I still think that probably wasn't your intention, somewhere along the line you kind of have, and that has maybe ruined the prospects of this now turning into a useful discussion of whatever your point was.

[boggle]

How do you leap from 'criticise posters' to calling someone a twat?

Can you not post saying' I disagree with what you have posted and feel it is indicative of a tendency on this thread to .....''

What on earth makes you want to assume that I am telling you to personally attack posters?

What a weird thread

I think that the NC and the LTB can be very empowering to hear. If you have the choice to go no contact but decide not to, then you are choosing that route. You're not trapped, you have other options, but you are making a decision and taking control of your contact with the difficult person.

Likewise with LTB, you are given permission to go. In a society where women are expected to suck it up and put everyone else first, people are told that their happiness matters. And if they decide to stay and give things a go, then they are doing it in the knowledge that that is their own choice. They could leave, but they're choosing to try something else.

I think women can feel trapped by what is expected of them. Being given permission to give their own needs importance is invaluable.

The most mysoginistic posts I see on here are the, "oh bless him! You know what men are like!" rubbish. I like men, I have great respect for the men in my life and I treat them as though they are competent, whole human beings :)

I'm not sure of the point of this thread, I don't understand the venom being thrown at certain posters on the Relationships board, but I've decided to say my piece anyway :) so there you go.

I'm not sure what's going on except pagwatch has unwittingly joined the feminist hive mind.