Men who fantasise about rape (Trigger?)

[alicemalice]

Hope I don't trigger anyone with this thread.

I've been online dating for a bit and chatting to this guy who I seemed to have a lot in common with.

Looking at his answers on Okcupid, there's one that said 'Do you have fantasies about rape?' to which he replied, yes.

This really bothers me. I understand it's not real and I suspect rape fantasies are quite common. But still, I find it very off-putting.

I also find it odd that he answered it so publicly.

Are rape fantasies so common they're seen as fairly normal?

Nothing. I'm really not directing these comments at you. Honestly.

Rather I think there's an issue with dodgy men who justify there pretty dubious views of women (or sometimes even sexual predilections for children) as just a 'normal fantasy'.

I think we sidelines into the dominatrix stuff, but that's not really anything to do with my main point.

If you believe fantasising about raping someone is A-ok, then you must believe the guy on Okcupid didn't really do anything odd, (apart from the context in which he shared it).

And let's face it, the fact the question exists there means many people think it's ok to share it on Okcupid.

I don't see the big issue - I'd rather know from the get go if someone was compatible with me (hence me not dating anyone who isn't into BDSSM), I thought I made that clear?

Joe - you made insinuations about my character, based on my sexual preference.

There probably are lots of men who fantasize about raping women. The question is, should such fantasies be seen as normal or acceptable?

I think no.

Joe - do you and your partner (if you have one) not have any fantasies?

No Frau I really didn't - and if I seemed to I'm sorry.

As I keep saying, my comments are very much focussed on the problem of misogynist fantasies.

Why are they not acceptable Joe, as long as if they are only acted on in a "scene" or remain in the head?

We do. Everybody does. I've never said that's a problem.

I only introduced things the other way round (men who want women whipping them or forcing themselves on to them and tying them up) as women find it more comfortable to discuss that although it ought to be sexually neutral. Fantasies either way round are fine - that is just sexual thought. It is not action.

The reality as every sex study ever done shows is that it is normal - women and men have these fantasies and they give them a lot of pleasure and they do no one any harm. So yes they are normal. Now you might argue a man who wants to be whipped or a woman or whatever has somehow been caused to be like that or that it's innate but you cannot say it's not very very common. Whether certain thoughts are acceptable or not is a separate issue.
St Paul said adultery in the head was as bad as in the flesh - sins of thought have been sins in most religions and the ability to stop a thought and change it is central to much therapy but if a thought gives pleasure, causes no harm and is part of your natural sexuality I would argue there is no moral duty to change it.

So why is it a problem when mine are either not acted on or acted on in an SSC way? Because it seems to me that you made judgements about my character and that now it's all heading into thought police territory.

That's why there is no point debating it with people who have different sexualities as they never understand. Yet I feel I can understand how it must be to be a gay man or woman or someone into sex with goats or men who want to wear nappies or whatever it might be. Sexual fantasies give most men and women huge enjoyment and are a force for good not bad. If you can achieve the holy grail of a partner with similar sexual interests then that is a good, not a bad. Obviously when physically acted on it must be consensual.

Well..

are you saying that if someone fantasizes about molesting children then there's nothing wrong with that? Surely such a person should at the very least keep such fantasies to themselves and ideally get some therapy?

All I'm saying is that a line has to be drawn somewhere. Yes, there are people who like whipping each other etc, and although I don't get that and do think it can be suspect in terms of sexual politics, it's not really what I'm talking about.

The post was originally about rape fantasies, which are something else altogether different I think.

When I fantasise about raping a man with a strap on, I'm not fantasising about engaging in a consensual BDSSM scene. That's the point - there is a disconnect between the fantasy and reality. That's why it's a fantasy.

I suspect many people do not fantasise about molesting children. If many people do fantasise about genuine rape, that's because it's acceptable to us on some level.

Joe, yes. I am probably the only mumsnetter who will be prepared to say that but I don't think thought is ever wrong. Now if that person thought they might act on it which is against the law I agree with you they should not and they should find ways to stop acting on it.

I draw the line nowhere with thought. You should be free to think about taking over the world, gassing the entire population, pulling the Prime minster limb from limb, having sex with 5 dead bodies after a goat. It is just thought.

Then the next issue is writing about it for others to see which is not the same as just having the thought and the law has really wrestled with this. The Criminal Justice and Immigration act I think it's called tried to deal with some of this - it said if you take an image for sexual reasons which is extreme it is illegal but if not it's fine. So I could hold pictures from medical textbooks of vaginas being cut during childbirth and that does not breach the law but if I took such an image for sexual purposes that would breach the act. If I looked at footage of ISIS or Iran hanging people and masturbated to it that is not illegal. if I went there and made the footage to masturbate to I would. it is a difficult statute and I do not support it. Not that I am actually into any of those particular things.

Sure alicemalice. I was just using a more extreme example to make my point that a fantasy isn't automatically ok just by virtue of being a fantasy.

Well of course you can't police people's thoughts and fantasies. And all sorts of stuff goes through people's heads that they'd never actually act on. But surely if people are having fantasies like the one in question then they should question them, deal with them. Not justify them or bring them into what is supposed to be a loving and respectful relationship.

Why can't my relationships be loving and respectful Joe? You've already said that to me once before.

If both partners have the same fantasies then I see no harm in them playing them out. However I am a free market libertarian and supporter of alternative sexualities from gay rights and the rest so I obviously hold one particular view. It can be a very loving relationship and a respectful relationship and yet both sides have extreme fantasies.

What is a problem is that if people before marriage do not disclose their sexual inclinations. That's appalling as you end up in a marriage based on a lie whether that be that the man is gay but never said or he wants to be tied up and whipped or the woman needs XYZ. That is lying and deceit,. Similarly with having low sex drive (there are more asexuals in the UK than gays) - pretending you are into a lot of sex and as soon as you are married is pretty bad conduct too.

If they both want to dress up as mermaids or goats and have sex or latex or spank each other and are both into those things then good for them. If they want to arouse each other by talking about having sex with corpses as long as they do not go grave robbing that is fine too if they both like that and are into it.

Frau, please, stop taking all my comments so personally. I'm really not directing them at you.