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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminist pub no 12: The Bluestocking Returns, this time with goats!

999 replies

YonicScrewdriver · 05/10/2014 09:18

Welcome!

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YonicScrewdriver · 08/10/2014 12:15

Vezzie, I hear you.

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UptoapointLordCopper · 08/10/2014 13:01

vezzie Flowers

I also hate the bit where men people tell you to be cautious and not be rash when it is quite clear that you are cautious and have never been rash all your life, when you have an actual idea and tell people about it. Hmm It reminds me of Hilary Clinton and her "friends" who told her not to be too bold about the speech on women's-rights-are-human-rights. Not that I am Hilary Clinton, you understand. Grin

Be careful this be careful that. And then oh but you didn't get that promotion because you didn't push this or that. Fuck off.

PetulaGordino · 08/10/2014 13:26

gaslighting, that's what that is lordc

BuffyRedRidingHood · 08/10/2014 18:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kickassangel · 08/10/2014 18:10

I get that about you feel like your voice isn't heard cos all the men just club together and chat then think they've done the job.

My place isn't perfect but that doesn't happen too often. There are a lot of strong women and it's as likely that a group of them, or even just a mixed group with a common interest, will get together and make decisions.

I've deliberately started just putting myself forward. If I think there's a job that needs doing, then I go to whoever will be in charge and say 'I can do that'. I'm not rude or pushing, but I won't sit around and wait for them to ask for volunteers, I get there first. There's a job I'd like to do here which isn't even a recognised 'job' yet, but I reckon that if I keep pushing things in the right direction, if/when someone (me) suggests that really they need to pay someone and give them the title for doing this job, then I will be the obvious candidate, because I'm already doing it.

I just see that as good career progression, but of course you have to be in the right place at the right time to even create those opportunites.

Vezzie - think about how capitalism works. Of course you only get paid just enough to keep you in the job, that is how the system works. Which means it isn't you, it's how our economies are structured. Companies need to make the most profit and to squeeze every last drop of work out, but without quite pissing you off enough to walk.

There's a lot of Marxism that can be adapted into feminism.

OublietteBravo · 08/10/2014 18:25

What's in the basket little girl? Weapons. Grin

Vezzie Sad - sounds like you are having such a shit time. I don't think I can offer any words of wisdom, but I'm more than happy for you to rant as much as you want.

I think I'm very fortunate where I work - my managers manager is a very strong woman. If any of my colleagues treated me like that she'd be down on them like a tonne of bricks (and she'd be very direct about it - it's the Dutch way)!

UptoapointLordCopper · 08/10/2014 18:33

"What's in the basket little girl?"

"Don't you fucking call me little girl. Take that you bastard!" >

Grin
UptoapointLordCopper · 08/10/2014 18:34

Not that I advocate violence, you understand.

I've actually had quite a nice day today - working away on a nice little problem and not talking to anyone. Smile

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 08/10/2014 20:04

Anyone read Jennifer Lawrence's comments in Vanity Fair? It was all going so well until 'long distance relationship. And either your boyfriend looks at porn, or he looks at you.'

Just. Urgh. There's no need justify exchanging the pictures. Especially not by implying that all men look at porn and it's a woman's responsibility to make sure his needs are taken care of.

VeryLittleGravitasIndeed · 08/10/2014 20:16

vezzie Thanks
I have no helpful advice, only Brew (or Wine if you prefer?)

OublietteBravo · 08/10/2014 20:21

Can I have Wine please (even though it is a school night)? I've just had a painful hour trying to get DD to do her French homework.

VeryLittleGravitasIndeed · 08/10/2014 20:42

I'm having Wine and I feel unguilty about this situation Grin

I'm cross about a Facebook post on my feed about women changing their name on marriage. People on the comments are talking about how feminism is about choice therefore their decision to follow an utterly patriarchal tradition is feminist. Well, no, feminism isn't about choice Angry

YonicScrewdriver · 08/10/2014 21:05

Urgh, just literally got talked over at a work event by two men considerably taller than me. Urgh.

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UptoapointLordCopper · 08/10/2014 21:09

I've had to hide a few friends on facebook because of posts like "this is how an ideal girlfriend behaves" and "how to make yourself more attractive" and "OMG must read for men" and "romantic this or that" stuff which are anything but romantic usually involving great sacrifices made by patient long-suffering girlfriends who are ultimately rewarded by boyfriend paying attention to them etc etc. Makes you want to scream ...

PuffinsAreFicticious · 08/10/2014 21:14

Vezzie so sorry you're having a shit time. I have no words of advice for you, just some feministy hand holding.

MyEmpireOfDirt · 08/10/2014 21:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorkingBling · 08/10/2014 21:19

Gravitas, I used to think feminism is about choice and partly still do. But the name change thing is a huge issue for me. Because all those women who chose to change their names, never seem to notice that it's a choice that they make and that never comes up for men.

I no longer talk about it in public as I actually am concerned that some really good friendships will be damaged.

OublietteBravo · 08/10/2014 21:23

I kept my surname - DSis kept hers and got BIL to change his surname to match (but she did change her title to Mrs)

AnnieLobeseder · 08/10/2014 21:58

I find myself growling at my computer every time I see friends posting pics from a wedding they've attended and write the obligatory "The new Mr and Mrs Bloggs!" with the assumption that she will be Mrs and will change her name. And that most of the time, they'll be correct.

Dragonlette · 08/10/2014 22:02

Vezzie, that all sounds shit. I have no words of wisdom but vent away, a bit of rage is fine.

The name change thing is really awkward isn't it? I know so many women who have changed their names, completely or double-barrelling, and only a handful of women have kept their own name. I only know one man who has changed his name, and his wife changed hers as well, they chose a mash-up of their own surnames as their family name, because double-barrelling their names sounded awful. His family were/are incredibly hurt because it 'felt like he rejected them', but nobody bats an eyelid when women 'reject' their family surname.

PetulaGordino · 08/10/2014 22:07

dp would never change his name

i would possibly double barrel

my mum uses both interchangeably, though unmarried name always for work

both the weddings i have been to most recently (for people in late twenties) have involved the "who gives this woman..." question to the father of the bride, which i was very surprised by. mind you, both grooms had asked permission from the bride's father to ask her to marry him...

PetulaGordino · 08/10/2014 22:08

when i say i would possibly double barrel - that is as far as i would go in changing my name

NormaStanleyFletcher · 08/10/2014 22:14

I did change my name Blush

Tbh, I double barrelled in my first marriage. And with this one we had flipped a coin on the children's sue name and I wanted to bethe same as them. (it sometimes makes things easier)

Plus his surname was so much more interesting than mine. Grin

PetulaGordino · 08/10/2014 22:17

you shouldn't be embarrassed norma. it's the automatic assumption that bothers me

NormaStanleyFletcher · 08/10/2014 22:17

Vezzie, sorry you are having such a shit time.

I have found that leaving print outs of job adverts on my desk/the printer has worked in the past, prior to the pay rise conversation.