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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Depressing report - anal sex in under 18s

358 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/08/2014 17:45

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996.full

The link goes into much more detail but the gist is:

"First, some men's narratives suggested that mutuality and consent for anal sex were not always a priority for them. Interviewees often spoke casually about penetration where women were likely to be hurt or coerced (“you can rip 'em if you try and force anal sex”; “you just keep going till they get fed up and let you do it anyway”), suggesting that not only do they expect coercion to be part of anal sex (in general, even if not for themselves personally), but that many of them accept or at least do not explicitly challenge it. Some events, particularly the ‘accidental’ penetration reported by some interviewees, were ambiguous in terms of whether or not they would be classed as rape (ie, non-consensual penetration), but we know from Jack's interview that ‘accidents’ may happen on purpose.

Second, women being badgered for anal sex appears to be considered normal.

Third, the commonly circulating ideas that ‘everyone’ enjoys it, and that women who do not are either flawed or simply keeping their enjoyment secret, help support the erroneous idea that a man pushing for anal sex is simply ‘persuading’ his partner to do something that ‘most girls would like’. Even Alicia's narrative contains some of the apparently coercive features of anal sex that other women report in negative terms, despite Alicia reporting enjoying anal sex.

Fourth, anal sex today appears to be a marker of (hetero)sexual achievement or experience, particularly for men.18 The society which our interviewees inhabit seems to reward men for sexual experience per se (‘every hole's a goal’) and, to some extent, rewards women for compliance with sexually ‘adventurous’ acts (enjoyment signifying not being naive, unrelaxed, etc), although women must balance this with the risk to their reputation. Women may also be under pressure to appear to enjoy or choose certain sexual practices: Gill describes a ‘postfeminist sensibility’ in contemporary media, where women are expected to present themselves as having chosen behaviours that conform to a stereotype of heterosexual male fantasy.24 The common portrayal of anal heterosex in terms of men breaking women's resistance can be compared with narratives about first vaginal intercourse25 and perhaps have superseded them to some degree in the British context where premarital vaginal intercourse is considered normal and so perhaps less of a ‘conquest’.

Fifth, many men do not express concern about possible pain for women, viewing it as inevitable. Less painful techniques (such as slower penetration) were rarely discussed."

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 19/08/2014 21:30

(Warning, possibly not a very fair or balanced opinion) IME "sex-positive feminism" is mostly about people showing off about how kinky and accepting they are of everything. It almost gets competitive, it's weird. Oh yay, you like anal sex with nipple tassels and whipped cream, go you. Why? How is that activism? Why would anybody want to know the details of somebody else's sex life unless they want to be in it? It actually reminds me very much of the playground talk of my generation, the first porn-infested generation, if you like. Internet video was suddenly accessible in 2003. The vast majority of us were more internet savvy than our parents. Nobody had "net nanny" software and anyway it was primitive, any school kid could get around the school internet blocks, it was the same at home. 2005, picture phones were suddenly cheap. Then video phones in 06/07. I can tell you specific instances of porn that I saw on each of those media not very long after they were available. I cannot tell you how many cock photos I received on chat/IM sites because I don't remember all of them, they were that commonplace.

PacificDogwood · 19/08/2014 21:33

See, Bertie, that's how I know how ancient I am: I have never ever seen a cock photo that I had not invited Grin

PacificDogwood · 19/08/2014 21:34

Oh, and I think your opinion is v fair: it's competitive showing off.
I see your nipple tassels and raise you my nipple clamps.

Not that any of that is wrong or to be discouraged, but it does not need to be bragged about. Just as I keep my vanilla habits to myself most of the time

DrunkenWhore · 19/08/2014 21:34

Stuff like this scares the shit out of me. I worry so much for DSD at 21 she's already been through so much shit and trauma at the hands of "men" (not real men in my eyes). I fear so much for my dds when they grow up and TBH really really hope they are gay.

AlpacaYourThings · 19/08/2014 21:35

Yes, I was a teen in the 00's and getting cock shots on teen chat sites or MSN (if I added someone I didn't know) was common place. My parents weren't internet savvy so I don't think they were aware of the risks.

SevenZarkSeven · 19/08/2014 21:39

Bertie and Aplaca your comments just reminded me of another thread - can I ask you a question although it's rather irrelevant to the thread. of these cock shots, what % were erect?

Because, on the other thread the woman had been getting a lot and halfway through it turned out they were almost all flaccid and many of us were just like, well what's the fucking point of that?

So it's sort of just out of interest. Because potentially modern young men are even more weird than I could have imagined.

AlpacaYourThings · 19/08/2014 21:40

I'm sure I didn't ever get sent an erect cock shot. I know this because I thought that my first BF's penis was weird because it went 'up'.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 19/08/2014 21:41

I agree with expat et al, as a mildly promiscuous teen in the late 80s, guys were always grateful, and I was never pushed for anything er off the beaten track?!

Single again ten years ago, I felt there had been a sexual shift (although not everyone for sure) and expectations were different.

AlpacaYourThings · 19/08/2014 21:43

Oh and I don't think they were sent boys. Most 'boys' would say they were 14/15/16/17 but then claim later on that they were 20+ I'm sure a lot of them were even older.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 19/08/2014 21:43

Ds(13) learnt about sex in phse last term, I was disappointed that consent was not covered.

SevenZarkSeven · 19/08/2014 21:45

Thanks alpaca. I am utterly genuinely baffled by the fact that "cock shots" are flaccid. I literally do not understand.

Still never mind, one to ponder another day probably. Sorry for sidetrack

angeltulips · 19/08/2014 21:47

It's funny - the PP who described what it was like in the 70s made me smile as I remember my mum telling me she had lots of kisses without tongues and me thinking "what did you DO then? How square and quaint!" I couldn't even comprehend how it was possible to snog someone properly without tongue

I worry that's what our children think when we say the same think about anal sex Hmm

I guess they are going to start prosecuting some of these cases as gbh where there is serious injury - maybe that will bring matters to a head and remind young men and women of the consequences of it

SevenZarkSeven · 19/08/2014 21:47

I wonder why consent is not on the curriculum.

Concern about more children being taken out of classes?
Just out of date and no thought gone into what children actually need to know?
Something else?

angeltulips · 19/08/2014 21:47
  • thing
TeWiSavesTheDay · 19/08/2014 21:48

Quite a lot of people don't seem to realize that some penis('s is ii?) get longer and wider when erect...

SevenZarkSeven · 19/08/2014 21:50

I don't think they'd get anywhere trying to prosecute for anything, angeltulips. I can't even imagine it being suggested TBH. Except in cases where it was obviously rape.

AlpacaYourThings · 19/08/2014 21:56

Well, I'm determined to have a very open talk about sex with my DC (if I am ever lucky enough to have any).

I think we are doing the next generation a disservice by not giving them comprehensive sex education in schools. It's important that they hear it at school (as well as home). It's important they hear the message with their peers.

CaptChaos · 19/08/2014 21:57

I know this was written from the British side of things, but across the pond there is a lot of pressure on young women who have made purity pledges to indulge in anal sex, because it's not 'real' sex. However, in the UK, it's definitely because of porn.

I was also a 'girl about town' in the 80's and I remember men just being happy to be there, rather than pushy and nasty, it was how you could tell which ones were the pushy and nasty ones were.

I cannot imagine a scenario where fisting could ever be seen as ok.

SevenZarkSeven · 19/08/2014 21:58

yes I agree alpaca and of course very few parents in the scheme of things are going to be sitting down with their kids and talking to them about all this stuff. Parents are notoriously rubbish at doing that. That's where the whole leave it to the parents idea falls down. The parents don't do it.

It needs to be in schools.

I also think that single sex as well as mixed sex groups are good for this aren't they? Disclaimer - I know sod all about sex education!

SevenZarkSeven · 19/08/2014 21:59

When I was a teen a lot of the religious girls gave blow jobs instead of vaginal sex, looks like that has shifted to anal instead of oral.

But yes I'm sure it's down to porn too.

Darkesteyes · 19/08/2014 22:00

expatinscotland Tue 19-Aug-14 19:32:35
I was a teen in the 80s and do not have any experience of men badgering for anal, 'slipping it in' or any such.

But when I became single in 1999 there was a definite shift! Men regularly asking or pestering for it, expecting it, making out you were frigid if you didn't want it.

I was a teen from 86 to 93 and i agree. So i reckon the lads mag culture contributed as well.

Flora. I dont mean to come across as nit picky but it was Elle who interviewed Sasha Grey not Marie Claire.

gussiegrips · 19/08/2014 22:01

The problem as I see it is that kids are only 5 clicks away from proper depravity online. That's happened faster than the slow-moving education system can cope with.

I'd be delighted if my 11 year old daughter had a lesson about consent as part of her sex ed. And, telling her that sex with the right person can be fecking magic. And, that equally, doing stuff with the wrong person or at the wrong time or for the wrong reasons is fecking horrific.

They see stuff that's abuse whilst their brains are hardwiring into adult form. That's going to have a long term impact on how they think.

My sons need to be protected from accidentally becoming rapists, and, my daughter from unwittingly becoming a victim.

Steubenville is what springs to my mind when I read that report: wiki link to triggering case in USA

Our kids are lost. Am thrilled to see that high school consent project, bloody good for them.

AlpacaYourThings · 19/08/2014 22:03

I know this was written from the British side of things, but across the pond there is a lot of pressure on young women who have made purity pledges to indulge in anal sex, because it's not 'real' sex.

Bloody hell, I'm shocked that a girls first sexual experience could be anal. Shock

PacificDogwood · 19/08/2014 22:04

Yes, it needs to be in school.
But also wider society: parents, other family, neighbours, friend's parents etc etc.

And, IMO, sex education is not primarily about sex, it needs to be about self-esteem, 'self love' in the purest meaning of the word, respect of others and oneself and generally being a nice person (gawd, I sound wet).

CaptChaos, don't get me started on that purity heinousness - the havoc in recent years being wrecked in Africa by born again 'christians' (I don't believe they are christians in a sense that Christ would have recognised) and their stance on homosexuality, premarital sex, masturbation is just so damaging and hard for me to watch.

AlpacaYourThings · 19/08/2014 22:05

Yes, Seven parents aren't great at it. Mine certainly weren't, and I'm determined not to repeat that mistake.

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