Depressing report - anal sex in under 18s

[noblegiraffe]

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996.full

The link goes into much more detail but the gist is:

"First, some men's narratives suggested that mutuality and consent for anal sex were not always a priority for them. Interviewees often spoke casually about penetration where women were likely to be hurt or coerced (“you can rip 'em if you try and force anal sex”; “you just keep going till they get fed up and let you do it anyway”), suggesting that not only do they expect coercion to be part of anal sex (in general, even if not for themselves personally), but that many of them accept or at least do not explicitly challenge it. Some events, particularly the ‘accidental’ penetration reported by some interviewees, were ambiguous in terms of whether or not they would be classed as rape (ie, non-consensual penetration), but we know from Jack's interview that ‘accidents’ may happen on purpose.

Second, women being badgered for anal sex appears to be considered normal.

Third, the commonly circulating ideas that ‘everyone’ enjoys it, and that women who do not are either flawed or simply keeping their enjoyment secret, help support the erroneous idea that a man pushing for anal sex is simply ‘persuading’ his partner to do something that ‘most girls would like’. Even Alicia's narrative contains some of the apparently coercive features of anal sex that other women report in negative terms, despite Alicia reporting enjoying anal sex.

Fourth, anal sex today appears to be a marker of (hetero)sexual achievement or experience, particularly for men.18 The society which our interviewees inhabit seems to reward men for sexual experience per se (‘every hole's a goal’) and, to some extent, rewards women for compliance with sexually ‘adventurous’ acts (enjoyment signifying not being naive, unrelaxed, etc), although women must balance this with the risk to their reputation. Women may also be under pressure to appear to enjoy or choose certain sexual practices: Gill describes a ‘postfeminist sensibility’ in contemporary media, where women are expected to present themselves as having chosen behaviours that conform to a stereotype of heterosexual male fantasy.24 The common portrayal of anal heterosex in terms of men breaking women's resistance can be compared with narratives about first vaginal intercourse25 and perhaps have superseded them to some degree in the British context where premarital vaginal intercourse is considered normal and so perhaps less of a ‘conquest’.

Fifth, many men do not express concern about possible pain for women, viewing it as inevitable. Less painful techniques (such as slower penetration) were rarely discussed."

There's no way this is unconnected with internet porn. The BMJ is reporting on this now because it is massively more prevalent than in the 80s or 90s. That's not to say some people were not experiencing this pressure but to nowhere near the same extent as today. It's just wishful thinking to believe this is nothing to do with the prevalence of anal sex / visibly coerced sex in porn e.g. the porn performer Sasha Grey saying "rip open all my holes" and being interviewed in Marie Claire. Third wave feminism has also contributed to this by taking on the cool-girl, do anything men you like as a feminist position.

I was a teen in the 80s and do not have any experience of men badgering for anal, 'slipping it in' or any such.

But when I became single in 1999 there was a definite shift! Men regularly asking or pestering for it, expecting it, making out you were frigid if you didn't want it.

Interesting different experiences.

I was putting it about extremely merrily from about 1990 to 2004 and only 1 bloke tried to head in that direction as far as I can remember and took erm no for an answer.

I wonder if there is a difference even in area you live and stuff as well as age?

The report is incredibly depressing. The idea that young men (and older ones) are happy to coerce girls and women into engaging in sexual acts which they expect to cause them pain is just appalling. WTF is the matter with them.

I think we need more education around consent and decent fucking human decency everywhere immediately as others have said.

In terms of sex, things seem to be going backwards for girls at a horrifying rate.

I too was a teen in the 80s and never had this expectation of anal or other hardcore sex practices put to me.
Then again, I grew up in Germany, early education about reproductive function and sex education was much more of a given and the naked body generally less of a taboo.

I too see young teens in my professional life (more girls looking for contraception, some boys worried about their bits) and the expectation has changed dramatically - even in the 20 years I have been in practice (which coincides nicely with the easy availability of violent porn and the objectifying of women depicted as 'enjoyment') things have changed for the worse.

I totally agree that my boys needing to 'get' what consent means, is really important to me. DS1 is 11 so still thinks 'girls are stoopid', but even DS4(4) is told only to kiss people who want to be kissed (he is an enthusiastic and slobbery kisser…)

I do believe that this seemingly casual acceptance of damaging and violent sexual practices is damaging to the men engaged in it too. Why on earth would a man need to feel the 'own' a woman??
Rhetorical question - naive, I know.

expat, my experience is the same kind of timeline as you suggest: late 90s things had become darker

Our sed ed lesson on consent was on "how to say no" - looking back how ridiculous and victim blaming and awful is that?? I mean presumably they also covered "respect the no" but I don't remember that part, so it can't have been as in depth or hard hitting (or possibly I just didn't feel it relevant to me).

This is sickening.ive never felt so old or out of touch (I'm 34)

Consent is such a huge issue. The lack of informed consent for a medical procedure would cause uproar and probably a lawsuit. But it seems consent to sex with a partner is the absence of a forceful "No".
I know when I found out DP was cheating on me, I felt I had been forced due to this lack of information beforehand. But this, wow, depressing and very scarey for DC.

I think you'd expect there to be differences. Because internet porn didn't come from nowhere, after all, did it? It just made more accessible what was around.

I knew absolutely nothing about it (like I say, very boring teenager), but apparently my local town ran an extremely successful porn video shop, which was raided for child porn after I left school.

So the idea here is that boys are learning how to "do sex" from porn and as a result are under the impression that sex is something they do to females, and it's all about getting what they want and here is a list of things, and how she feels about any of it is irrelevant. If you can talk / persuade / bully her into sort of agreeing to it more or less then go for it and obviously it's going to be painful for her so don't even worry about that.

So what the fuck do we even do with that.

Parents on the whole are not going to broach this with their children so that's not going to help.

It needs to be in schools doesn't it.

I was a teenager in the 00s and it might have been the men I dated/hung around with (mostly pricks) but it was a given that you'd have sex (I thought I was the oldest virgin ever at 18, literally used to cry about it all the time because I thought I was broken) and anal was a sort of "Ooh, would you?", so not a given, but every bloke I was with apart from the first who I totally failed to have sex with anyway was pushing the idea of anal.

What I mean is, it'd really only take one local shop stocking a particular kind of video, to up the likelihood of people picking up particular attitudes. Even now, I reckon if you dedicated a few months to relentlessly posting videos of people wanking over doorknobs on porn sites, it'd catch on.

I am absolutely sure it is porn linked.

I was a teenager in the 90s and none of my boyfriends requested it nor did I hear banter between guy friends about it. However once I got into my late twenties I can remember seeing a guy who deliberately 'missed' and it was so painful I actually fell off the bed and cried. He acted pretty non-plussed and didn't bother contacting me once I left to find out if I was ok. That was pretty shocking for me at the time although fortunately the guys I met after him were lovely.

I lived an, erm, unboring life as a teen but this was never brought up by any partners (all male) until I became single again. By this point, however, I was near 30 and quite confident that it was not for me and what consent was and the power of no.

Of course it's porn linked.

It didn't used to be a mainstay in hetero porn, more a sort of speciality item, now it's just absolutely bogstandard.

Many, many teenaged girls look at me like this and when I suggest that sex ought to be mutually pleasurable and fun.
It is too depressing for words.

That is truly shocking and sad. I was 16 when I lost my virginity to a 23-year-old man I knew well and it was a really good experience of mutual fun and pleasure, respect and safety. What a shame for so many young people.

Yeah that was the aim in our day, pacific.

What has happened?
Boys & girls learn from porn and we have seen the results but when did the idea that women can & should enjoy the sex they are having just vanish? Even with all the rest of the stuff, how come that has gone?

This report has really upset me, I have two DDs who are not teens yet, so it is a personal one.

I think we are a similar age Bertie? Your summary matches up with my experiences. (except dh, who really had no interest in anal, and had to defend his straightness to our friends many times because of it!)

LRD - I laughed, but actually that would be a really interesting experiment.

The real shame is all the good, fun, loving sex that young folk are missing out on. Porn is setting a violent, misogynistic standard. When I was a teenager, in the 90s, hardcore porn was something we giggled about. We certainly didn't want to emulate it. I think first sexual experiences are being fast-tracked by Internet porn. There was a big gap between when my first sexual experience & losing my virginity. I don't think that gap exists much anymore & girls are it finding harder to say no.

What concerns me is that it is my understanding that regular anal penetration can cause problems. My Mother used to work in a role that saw her have to look after facilities in her work building that included the toilets and she had real problems with tampons that were being used in the rectum to prevent leakage, being left in the cubicles and blocking the toilet.

I had never really heard of this before but I've since heard it's quite a common issue within the gay community. If this is the case then I'm not surprised hospitals are seeing an increase in rectal injuries.

That's really incredibly sad Pacific.

I have 2 DDs and a boy and to be honest, and I know this might sound a bit bonkers, but it'sbeen on my mind for a while I might start seeking out erotica where the women have an enjoyable and consent filled time and start leaving it strategically round the house when they hit early teens... My introduction to 'this is what sex is' was mostly shipper fanfiction of that ilk and I think it served me fairly well.

The thought if my daughters not enjoying sex and my son being a rapist is horrific.

I was a teen in the 90s. When I was in my 20s I went out with a guy who said he wanted to try it but later broke down and said that he didn't, that it wasn't 'him' but that he felt it was something he needed to be in order to seem, I don't know, sexually exciting? A catch? Interesting I think to see it from perspective of a man who doesn't want to but feels this is what you 'should' do.

I have a young dd and ds and going to be doing my best to educate them both about sex and consent and porn v real life and just generally that nobody should do or coerce someone else to do anything they're not sure about or don't want to.

I did have a few guys ask for anal sex amongst other things but luckily had the confidence to say no if I didn't want to, and luckily only have dealt with men who took no for an answer and didn't feel the need to convince or coerce. I never felt that my pain was expected or wanted - that's shocking

I hate that porn just seems to involve women being done to and not enjoying it. If a bloke only watches porn, how is he meant to know about real, proper, sensual foreplay? Is there any decent erotic literature that portrays sex in a more realistic, pleasurable light?

What concerns me is that people are expecting to be anally raped when both males and females usually quite clearly understand that to penetrate a female the same way vaginally, without consent, is rape.

Wonder why it's all about men doing it to women rather than gay men.Surely they have the same issues?