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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Depressing report - anal sex in under 18s

358 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/08/2014 17:45

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996.full

The link goes into much more detail but the gist is:

"First, some men's narratives suggested that mutuality and consent for anal sex were not always a priority for them. Interviewees often spoke casually about penetration where women were likely to be hurt or coerced (“you can rip 'em if you try and force anal sex”; “you just keep going till they get fed up and let you do it anyway”), suggesting that not only do they expect coercion to be part of anal sex (in general, even if not for themselves personally), but that many of them accept or at least do not explicitly challenge it. Some events, particularly the ‘accidental’ penetration reported by some interviewees, were ambiguous in terms of whether or not they would be classed as rape (ie, non-consensual penetration), but we know from Jack's interview that ‘accidents’ may happen on purpose.

Second, women being badgered for anal sex appears to be considered normal.

Third, the commonly circulating ideas that ‘everyone’ enjoys it, and that women who do not are either flawed or simply keeping their enjoyment secret, help support the erroneous idea that a man pushing for anal sex is simply ‘persuading’ his partner to do something that ‘most girls would like’. Even Alicia's narrative contains some of the apparently coercive features of anal sex that other women report in negative terms, despite Alicia reporting enjoying anal sex.

Fourth, anal sex today appears to be a marker of (hetero)sexual achievement or experience, particularly for men.18 The society which our interviewees inhabit seems to reward men for sexual experience per se (‘every hole's a goal’) and, to some extent, rewards women for compliance with sexually ‘adventurous’ acts (enjoyment signifying not being naive, unrelaxed, etc), although women must balance this with the risk to their reputation. Women may also be under pressure to appear to enjoy or choose certain sexual practices: Gill describes a ‘postfeminist sensibility’ in contemporary media, where women are expected to present themselves as having chosen behaviours that conform to a stereotype of heterosexual male fantasy.24 The common portrayal of anal heterosex in terms of men breaking women's resistance can be compared with narratives about first vaginal intercourse25 and perhaps have superseded them to some degree in the British context where premarital vaginal intercourse is considered normal and so perhaps less of a ‘conquest’.

Fifth, many men do not express concern about possible pain for women, viewing it as inevitable. Less painful techniques (such as slower penetration) were rarely discussed."

OP posts:
PenguinsIsSleepDeprived · 22/08/2014 18:01

Sadly not euphemisms GussiegripsSmile

SevenZarkSeven · 22/08/2014 18:53

Been thinking about this a bit more.

I think that focussing on the sex act itself leads to maybe getting sort of sidetracked.

The report has shown that in this group of 16-18yo boys and girls, sexual coercion was considered the norm and the girls did not expect to enjoy it (this act).

Certainly different sex acts carry different risks and levels of risk.

However if the boys and girls are in this situation with one sex act it's fair to extrapolate that the same will be the case for other sex acts.

For eg vaginal sex carries huge risks for the female, is often painful the first time, and can be painful if done "wrong". It's fair to say that these girls are unlikely to be having a fabulous time with the other sex they are having surely. And are just as likely into having it when they don't want it, or aren't ready, and all the rest of it.

So really this report shows up a symptom of a wide malaise of boys treating girls like sex-dolls rather than people. Which is down to a toxic combination of hateful attitudes towards women in a lot of the media and society, and the consumption of a particularly misogynist form of hardcore porn from a young age.

What can be done is another matter. Education in schools needs to start younger and happen more often but really I can't see that happening. I'm not sure how you could stop children accessing the porn. And the attitudes towards women and girls in the media and in society seem to be going backwards rather than forwards. All really depressing.

And as a side-note, while coercion or persuasion or whatever you want to call it has always gone on from males to females AFAIK, there seems to have been a shift in "taking no for an answer" and the level of entitlement that males seem to display these days. And of course this idea that girls aren't going to enjoy it, and that's just fine, is just awful.

BertieBotts · 23/08/2014 14:52

YY Seven. In my experience this has been totally the case about oral sex (blowjobs in particular.) ie you (the woman) are not supposed to like it but it is seen as completely ridiculous if you don't do it. Even my DH who would never ever dream of putting pressure on anybody or pushing somebody sexually got caught up in a "Feel sorry for you mate" kind of rhetoric a couple of years ago when after playing some kind of drinking game with friends, it turned out that one of his friends' long term girlfriend had never done this. I wasn't around at the time but thinking back the reaction was almost as if it had been revealed that she never smiled at him, something that basic and ordinary.

CoteDAzur · 23/08/2014 22:23

Much as I was horrified by this report, it was the normalcy of coercion and overall attitude towards young girls that got to me rather than the widespread practice of anal sex.

It's not my thing but I don't agree with all the "it's not made for sex - it's an exit". There is no denying that the anus is an erogenous zones with a surprising concentration of nerve endings, much more stimulating for the woman in a sexual context than oral sex.

CKDexterHaven · 24/08/2014 00:05

I wonder if teenage girls introduced to the idea of anal sex through the kind of 'gateway' porn men use to train their girlfriends up realise that the women involved often prepare themselves before hand with enemas and a lot of pain-numbing drugs?

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 09:17

No. Many take what they see as porn as how it should be. They don't understand what goes on behind the filming.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 09:18

much more stimulating for the woman in a sexual context than oral sex

Umm the clit is pretty sensitive...

CoteDAzur · 24/08/2014 11:18

I was talking about penis-in-mouth oral sex. Sorry of that wasn't clear.

The point was that performing oral sex by taking a penis in the mouth is now considered normal, although it is an orifice with a completely different use. And it is not an erogenous zone.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 11:24

I don't think oral sex among young people would be a problem...if it was something they both gave each other because they both wanted it and there was no pressure.
The problem is that boys get the idea that they're entitled to have girls please them in various ways and get nothing back.
Do people even know what a 69 is these days.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 11:25

By people I meant teenagers.

SevenZarkSeven · 24/08/2014 14:58

lol @ taking oral sex to mean being performed on the girl, in the context of this thread.

for Christ's sake.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 15:28

What's the problem, it sounds like I did something bad?

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 15:41

Okay so I sounded like an idiot but your comment kind of hurt Seven.

SevenZarkSeven · 24/08/2014 19:19

In the context of the thread it sounded like a really strange comment briar. I assumed that you were doing it on purpose to try and make some kind of point.

Apologies if that was not the case.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 19:36

I am sorry, I should've thought about it more than one second before posting.

Since we all seem to agree on the basics here, I didn't like being treated as a troll or something.

SevenZarkSeven · 24/08/2014 19:51

I saw your post and just reacted - I didn't go back through the thread to look for other posts I must admit - it was knee-jerk.

Apologies again.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 20:22

So, how that depressing topic we were discussing...

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/08/2014 20:23

*about
(Yeah, I should wait a bit before clicking on post)

SevenZarkSeven · 24/08/2014 20:32
Smile
JustTheRightBullets · 24/08/2014 20:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JustTheRightBullets · 24/08/2014 20:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoteDAzur · 24/08/2014 21:35

Sorry about all this misunderstanding. I was posting on my phone, so was obviously not as comprehensible as I thought I was.

My point was in reply to comments about how the anus isn't made for sex, à la "There is no doing it right, it is an out hole. That's a fact" etc. In fact, it has zillions of nerve endings and is an erogenous zone that is far more suitable to sexual stimulation than a woman's mouth - in which women regularly take penises, because oral sex is such a common ("normal") thing now.

If any of you doubt just how sensitive it is, I recommend having an injection in that area [ouch]

itsbetterthanabox · 24/08/2014 22:15

Where I used to work a 19 year old was telling the story of how he just puts it in and sees how they react. He then went onto say some girls would tell him to stop so he would but after a few thrusts. I told him he was a rapist and I was reprimanded by management. Lots of young men and women worked there an no one was shocked by what he was saying! It's absurd.

Darkesteyes · 25/08/2014 00:40

YOU were reprimanded for speaking the truth JESUS Is this what we have come to. That is appalling.

AskBasil · 25/08/2014 08:15

When people ask why we still need feminism, they just need to think about stuff lke this.