Facebook supports rape?

[MotherPanda]

Have we a thread on this yet?

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/04/facebook-hate-speech-women-rape?newsfeed=true

I am really shocked.

I am pleased this thread has ended on a calmer note. However I am quietly seething still I'm afraid.

I hate to sound picky, but it would be polite to acknowledge when someone has apologised. It would also be nice for those posters who accused me of the most horrendous things to do with rape, to apologise.

Because believe it or not, those things were completely untrue and hurtful.
You cannot tell someone that they do not believe victims of rape and that they think rape victims are themselves to blame and then just walk away and leave it.

I am pissed off with taking the time to explain my points, to answer accusations and to be the first to apologise and then to be expected to just accept all the crap that has been hurled at me.

So childish as this sounds, I am not willing to let this one go. Not this time.

You're pissed off with taking time to explain your points?

your point was that all rapists have something in common (re being mentally not all there) A victim can and WILL read that as "well, I missed the signs, so I've got myself to blame". It may not be what you mean, but that is how it comes across.

Add to that, the "mentally not all there" thing perpetuates so many mental health myths. My ex was very much there. Ironically, I was the one with bi-polar disorder. He spent his time trying to make out I was crazy. Do you get how damaging the things you are saying are?

Right. I apologised for the mentally not all there bit - which incidentally does NOT mean mentally ill as I went to great pains to point out, particularly as I have a brother with severe learning difficulties and I suffer depression myself.

I have agreed to disagree on the criminology front. It is my belief (from what I was taught) that all crime has a motive and all criminals a pattern of behaviour. To say that this means victims are to blame is ridiculous and the fact that this is what you inferred from that point is outrageous.

Yes research is always changing. However I was stating my beliefs and opinions and your response was to accuse me of not believing rape victims and blaming them - do you think that was an appropriate response? Is that how you conduct debates or argue with those who have a different opinion? To presume the worst of them?

Research is still ongoing as is forensic psychology. You have a different opinion to mine and you quote stats to back you up. That's fine and that's how a debate should go. But to accuse me of those things?

I am always the first to apologise for upsetting anyone and I am now getting pissed off at others not bothering to do the same. It's a simple ask.

I did have the brains to argue back. But you didn't have the brains to understand where the hell I, or any of the other feminists, were coming from.

And please refrain from calling me "twunt". I won't stand for slang about women's genitals being used as an insult, thank you

SGM. UK law has not changed in the 10 years ago (thank you) that I studied it. Rape is rape, always has been and always will be.
Criminals fit profiles. Sorry but I would recommend you read a forensic psychology book and find out more.
There is no crime without a motive.

Yes research has changed that has proved what? That some men say they don't know what rape is?

By saying that young men are hazy on what is rape is giving them an excuse. You disagree, which is fair enough, but I think there is no excuse for ignorance.

Domestic abusers also fit a criminal profile. But I have maintained that this criminal profile is NOT clearly evident. So how can I be blaming victims?
There is also a lot of research going on concerning women who stay in abusive relationships and that research is so agencies can understand behaviour and better provide help.
It's all the fundamental principles of sociology and if you argue against that you are arguing against sociology.

Is that clear enough or am I still a rape apologist for daring to have a different view?

I have read the whole of this thread, and I agree that Rhubarb deserves an apology for being called a rape apologist, for the allegations that she doesn't believe victims of rape or thinks they are responsible for what happened to them, and for the other crap thrown at her.

I am also utterly perplexed as to why the focus appears to be on Rhubarb and her views (and on destroying her as completely as possible) rather than on condemning the facebook groups that were the subject of the Guardian article.

Thank you SDTG. Normally I would just leave it, but this got me so incensed that I am no longer prepared to let these kind of accusations go.
Seems they can dish it but cannot take it.

Oh well there you go.

You know, labelling posters a rape apologist, or saying that they blamed victims of rape is such a lazy argument. It's like saying "you disagree with us so we are going to throw the book at you and tear you apart". It's a shit stance from people who purely want to shut you up so they can carry on agreeing with each other.

No wonder so many people say they are too scared to post on the feminist threads. We should not have to put up with this shit just because we have a different opinion, different ideas and different thoughts. I admit I worded it wrong when I said there was something mentally wrong with rapists and for that I apologised. You have thrown the rape book at me and are now too bloody minded to even contemplate a simple sorry.

You are not worth arguing with. Your debates, when you start to throw insults around, mean nothing. You invalidate your points with accusations. If you represent feminism then I worry about the future of women.

Rhubarb,

You might find the Sexual Offences Act 2003 an interesting read. A number of changes have been made to the original Act of 1956. For example rape now includes penetration of the mouth.

So, that's why you're dragging this up on other threads, rhubarb?

SDTG, telling people that every rapist has traits in common is extremely damaging and dangerous. It leads victims to blaming themselves for their "inability" to spot these traits. THAT is why we're challenging this...

But no. Once again, we're just being the twunts unreasonable ones. For not wanting to see rape myths perpetuated on the Feminist Section.

Hairy - thank you.

Dont, why the hell should I not discuss this on other threads?

You are not challenging anyone's views by the way, you are merely destroying your own argument with over the top accusations and insults.
Sociology - every group of people has common traits. But your argument seems to say that the entire principle of sociology is wrong.

This argument started off about rape as a whole. You are now moving onto acquaintance rape? Drunken rape? Sleep rape? Domestic rape?

I think that domestic rape is the one where the victim is most likely to blame herself just as in domestic abuse and in those cases the perpetrator more often than not does not reveal his true character until it is too late. And statistical wise (yes you can look this up) he is most likely to have committed previous offences that the rape victim has no way of knowing.

Here, some reading for you on criminal profiling. Why not tell them all that they are all rape apologists?

What SDTG said. I did not see the other threads. Calling Rhubarb a rape apologist etc is definitely not on.

I agree with her. Imho rapists do have traits in common, disrespect to other human beings and their feeling is probably the most obvious one. I also do not believe it can be "spotted" in advance.

I also agree with those who said that the rape culture conditions certain men to become rapists and then get away with it. But I do not believe that any 'average' man will. I had no chance to look into the links provided earlier by jamma and others but I will.

But her calling me a twunt is on?

Nice...

Another legally termed Profiling Rapists piece here.

Oh FFS.

And yes. I disagree. 110%. But explaining why is only going to cause problems.

I'll put a trigger warning on rhubarb's last post, btw.

Calling anybody twunt is not on. Though I do it myself sometimes. Are there any harsh rude words for male genitals? Does not seem to be in English (do correct me if I am wrong), but plenty in my native language. In fact the most highly used very rude swear word is associated with penis... and my culture is SUPER misogynistic.

Trigger warning?

As I said to SQ, I don't mind that you disagree, that is what leads to healthy debates. But I hope I have shown that I was not making it all up as I went along, I was not talking bollocks and that criminal profiling does exist - it is not a part of criminology that is considered outdated or irrelevant.

I respect that you disagree and I respect your opinions on rape and the knowledge that you have. All I wanted was a little respect in return and not to be undermined and insulted.

Jesus. Rhubarb that link is awful. really. did you read it??

Bollocks bemybebe - that is not that you are bollocks! But your rude word for male genitals.