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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If you could choose... would you rather have been born male?

210 replies

wellwisher · 19/09/2011 14:13

I don't post in this section much, but this is inspired by the "Do you remember a specific moment where you realised that being female put you at a disadvantage?" thread.

I have become more feminist/aware of the disadvantages of being female as I've got older. The last few years, I've realised that if I could choose, I'd rather be male. I'm at an age where I'm starting to lose my looks and panic about my biological clock, and I resent that my male friends don't have these worries yet. Almost all my female friends have settled down and started to have children, often making major compromises to do so. Almost all my male friends are still single and enjoying their freedom. It feels so unfair! It's more than that though: women have so much additional CRAP to deal with - prejudice, misogyny, objectification, being punished by society for getting older/not being conventionally pretty, feeling physically vulnerable... honestly, if I could go back to the moment of my conception, wave a magic wand and be created male instead of female, I would do it in a snap. Yet, none of my female friends feel the same way - even though most of them are relatively feminist in their views.

Maybe I just feel like this because I don't have children. Maybe it's just me, am generally a bit gloomy at the moment... but I thought it could be an interesting discussion. What would you choose? Try to set aside any feelings associated with having had babies, as this clearly adds a huge emotional aspect to the issue. I hope that any future children of mine will be boys. I really feel I wouldn't wish being born female on anyone - and I'm aware of how easy women in the UK have it compared to most of the rest of the world.

OP posts:
MrsRigby · 19/09/2011 21:01

I've always felt more male than female, always thought that I should have been born a boy.

Pre pregnancy and babies, yes I wish I'd been born a man. Now that I've experienced being pregnant and brought children into this world, no, I'm happy and grateful that I've been born the way I have.

Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 21:01

Wiley: just seen your last comment. Well yes, the best sex I have had have been with men I have been in a relationship with. But I have had lots of fun while not in a relationship nor secretly wanting to be in one either. I expect some men have the same experience.
What I am trying to say is that the sex outside relationships isn't really anythnig to do with being male or female, but that as a culture we often tend to see it thus.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:02

frumpy...do you consider mf's pronouncement about women who don't get any sex to be "mingers" not to be personal ?

those kinds of comments should not go unchallenged (or undebated, if you prefer...), IMO

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 21:04

You got personal he was explaining what he would feel like as a woman from a mans perpective.

Ok you could say that it was a little rough around the edges but he was at least honest.

If you read what i said i said that i had reported your post to me.

Was i being personal?

Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 21:04

Sorry, meant to add that none of what I say might be true for you personally, Wiley. But just because you feel one way it doesn't mean that this is the same for all women, in the same way that what I feel about it isn't the same for all women. Thus if some men enjoy no strings sex that doesn't mean all do, and visa versa. Everyone can be different regardless of biological sex. That's the cruz of my argument.

Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 21:05

*crux

Ephiny · 19/09/2011 21:07

Interesting question - I'm not sure really, it's a difficult thing to imagine.

When I was younger I was definitely ambivalent about being a girl, but that didn't mean I wanted to be a boy instead, I just wanted it not to matter, not to be anyone's business, for people to stop going on about it and drawing attention to it all the time.

I think I still feel the same way. I don't feel particularly 'feminine' but I don't wish I was a man, I'd like it to matter less than it does. When it comes to having children, I'd definitely rather be the partner who doesn't have to do the pregnancy/birth part. But that doesn't necessarily equate to being a man, it could just as well be a woman with a female partner. Though DP happens to be inconveniently male...

Al0uiseG · 19/09/2011 21:07

Love, love, love being a woman. I like being the only woman in a male dominated household. I loved working in male dominated environments.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:07

I didn't say you were being personal, frumpy

It's me and moonferret that made it personal...you didn't have get involved in at all, in fact

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:07

in

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:09

have to get involved at all bloody hell

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 21:10

I didn't deserve to be insulted for conversing with another poster on this site did i ?

I believe moonferet made some goog if clumsy points.

His perspective could have been explored.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:17

I didn't want to explore it, frumpy, and neither did anyone else

The Feminism Board gets derailed far too often by ridiculous bombs getting thrown into conversations that were working quite nicely before that

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 21:18

Cat
Yes, was just my perspective, I have no other evidence of course. Have you ever really had lovely sex with someone you liked and not wanted more though? I am genuinely interested as I have never managed that despite really trying to. It would be less complicated and a lot less painful. The only ones I have walked away from after sex have been drunken one night stands or I realised we didn't click after we had sex, so it wasn't difficult to walk away without wanting a repeat performance.

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 21:19

I'm not getting into it with you further anyfucker.

You attacked me because you got angry.

The point's been made.

Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 21:21

Frumpyq:
I tried to ask Moonferret some questions about his pov in order to explore/discuss it. He refused saying "he couldn't be bothered to unravel that nonsense" and denying he had said anything along the lines I was implying. I asked again, quoting the bits that had lead me to think the way I did. His response has been deafening silence. He is the one who refuses to explain himself or debate his ideas; I'm quite happy to.

But I am now off out, so no more from me for a while.

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 21:23

You should be addressing that question to moonferret again Catitainahatit.

I was just referring to a personal attack.

madwomanintheattic · 19/09/2011 21:24

his perspective is that women can get laid whenever they want, as long as they aren't mingers. and that that particular point was the very crux of life itself, and why women have a better deal than men.

i don't even know where to begin with that sort of nonsense tbh. i mean, endless sex isn't exactly my idea of a fulfilled life. i'm not a porn fantasy - i'm a woman. it's hard to engage with a bloke that is so completely centrd around sex. sex. sex.sex.sex.sex. it's like being trapped in a bar with a pissed up horny 17yo, and remembering that you chose to wear a low cut top.

feel free to explore his perspective. i find it as demeaning to men as to women, tbh. the blokes i know can manage to go minutes, sometimes even hours, without a shag. (but then i suppose that makes me a minger in moonferret's eyes)

i find the idea that the amount of sex you have should be the most important thing in your life a bit weird.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/09/2011 21:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 21:36

We have both made a point, frumpy

And FYI, I'm not remotely angry

Lessthanaballpark · 19/09/2011 21:37

Frumpyq: Moonferret implied in his elegant way that the reason that any woman who doesn't get sex is a "minger".

No wonder he was shot down because this a viewpoint that feminists hate: it segregates women according to their looks and makes them feel that in order to be happy they must be physically attractive first and foremost. "Pretty girl / Ugly girl" is just one of the many binaries that women have to put up and that feminists try to dismantle. It's tiring.

Then he hid behind his gender as a reason for people criticizing him, which is ridiculous cos anyone who says something anti-feminist here gets slated regardless of their gender.

TrillianAstra · 19/09/2011 21:37

I think it's probably true that nearly all women could find themselves a penis at pretty short notice if they were really really unfussy. Doesn't really count as a massive pro to being female though.

ToPeeOrNotToPee · 19/09/2011 21:38

I love being a woman.

But, I wish the clitoris was a liiiitle bit lower so intercourse was more enjoyable - like it is for men. That's my only problem with being female.

Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 21:41

Yes you are right Frumptq. I was only trying to make the point that it was MF who was unwilling to defend his pov.

edd1337 · 19/09/2011 21:42

Nah. moonferret just voiced his opinion and you attacked him. Moonferret might have experianced such things in real life. He probably knows mingers who don't get sex because they are unattractive

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