If you could choose... would you rather have been born male?

[wellwisher]

I don't post in this section much, but this is inspired by the "Do you remember a specific moment where you realised that being female put you at a disadvantage?" thread.

I have become more feminist/aware of the disadvantages of being female as I've got older. The last few years, I've realised that if I could choose, I'd rather be male. I'm at an age where I'm starting to lose my looks and panic about my biological clock, and I resent that my male friends don't have these worries yet. Almost all my female friends have settled down and started to have children, often making major compromises to do so. Almost all my male friends are still single and enjoying their freedom. It feels so unfair! It's more than that though: women have so much additional CRAP to deal with - prejudice, misogyny, objectification, being punished by society for getting older/not being conventionally pretty, feeling physically vulnerable... honestly, if I could go back to the moment of my conception, wave a magic wand and be created male instead of female, I would do it in a snap. Yet, none of my female friends feel the same way - even though most of them are relatively feminist in their views.

Maybe I just feel like this because I don't have children. Maybe it's just me, am generally a bit gloomy at the moment... but I thought it could be an interesting discussion. What would you choose? Try to set aside any feelings associated with having had babies, as this clearly adds a huge emotional aspect to the issue. I hope that any future children of mine will be boys. I really feel I wouldn't wish being born female on anyone - and I'm aware of how easy women in the UK have it compared to most of the rest of the world.

fkinell, its always a kick off in here.

anyway, im glad im a woman and i'll tell you why - if anyone actually gives a shit about the subject that is

1. to remain 'me' but in a mans body wouldn't work because i can't fight. I realise lots of men can't /don't fight however i think it's easier for a woman not to fight. i think society expects men to be all testosteroney in certain situations where a woman can walk away.

2. i like my sex. not the female sex. just the sex - not actual sex - my own personal sex. i don't know how to term this other than this. I think tits are awesome in a nonbreastfeeding way

3. i like femininity. the kind of femininity that only the gayest of gay men could understand. i love to dance, i love to dress up, i love to get ready for a night out.

4. if its about opportunity/money etc - let me tell you that dh and i are in roundabout the same field and he;s had it a bit easier, he gets respect by virtue of being male and nothing else - but i manage things diffeently and i earn more than he does - not by a lot but i do.

There's no show without Punch

ToPee, there are ways to get around that little anatomical problem

AF - I know, but I'm lazy

That is, if you were referring to a 'toy' or using hands, or the old pillow under your bottom. If not, I'm intrigued

"It is curious, this belief/gripe some men have that women have the opportunity to have sex whenever and wherever the mood takes them. I think it stems from a frustration that women, in general, have standards and - god forbid- their own likes and dislikes, they're attracted to certain men not every man ."

I think that's partly it. But I also think it stems from the cliche of men perpetually wanting sex and women being the 'gatekeepers' of sex. If you're a man with that viewpoint then the thought of choosing not to have sex when the opportunity arises could be somewhat baffling.

I think posters who derail a thread and undermine basic feminist principles shouldn't be encouraged, they most likely thrive on it. I know by posting this I am going off subject, apologies OP, its just so annoying and its happening repeatedly in this topic.

snorbs, exactimo. are you offended by that representation of manhood?

Ah then, ToPee, you only have yourself to blame

Wiley: like I said I have had fun with various partners on a one night or couple of weeks stand as it were. I had the best sex in a relationship with a bloke ione summer. We didn't see a future together and we're now just pals. This kind of thing worked for me (and I hope the blokes I was with) but it doesn't have to be like that for everyone. There's nothing wrong with not wanting/liking sex outside a proper committed relationship.

Offended? Why should I be offended because some men are too immature to really understand how grown-up sexual relationships work?

i love being a woman because:

1. i don?t want a penis! NOOOOOOO all that hanging out stuff is just so ridiculous (apart from for peeing standing up.)

1. i work in a male industry. they all seem to feel the need to conform. i get the freedom to be myself

1. however much we are discriminated against, we don?t give up.

Moonferret's opinion was mad and stereotyped. But so are others here, which have gone unremarked. What leads some women to believe that women can't go out alone at night, for example, or can't be promiscuous without disapproval, or indeed have no-strings sex? There's a strong retrograde current running through this thread, not all of it springing from a male poster.

Perhaps there is much more work to be done than this board likes to admit.

Erm, patriarchy, garlicnutty.

what do you mean Garlic?
Some women have those experiences. It's good if you don't but don't assume everyone else is imagining it.

GN, that is precisely the reason why it irritates when the MRA activist-types come on and derail

other stuff that could be usefully debated goes under the radar...

Clearly I agree with AW. I just wish more of the points were being discussed.

SB - I didn't mean to imply others are imagining a fear of going out at night, etc, but I don't see the statements that women "can't" do those things as any more rational than moonferret's opinion.

Personally I find all those ideas worth discussing in a feminist forum, inclusively.

Garlic, clearly some women can have no strings sex, but I think there are gender differences in the biological imperative for that.

But, AF, we know that lots of men - and a fair few women - really do think like that. So is it a derailment, or is it a sexist issue worth discussing?

I can't think of one single occasion where I have wanted to be a man. I think they have a tough time.

I love being a woman, but if I come back again, I want to be a man.

Wiley, the biological imperatives for women to have sex with a lot of different men are just as strong - possibly even stronger, given the woman's long-term investment in the outcome.