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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

If you could choose... would you rather have been born male?

210 replies

wellwisher · 19/09/2011 14:13

I don't post in this section much, but this is inspired by the "Do you remember a specific moment where you realised that being female put you at a disadvantage?" thread.

I have become more feminist/aware of the disadvantages of being female as I've got older. The last few years, I've realised that if I could choose, I'd rather be male. I'm at an age where I'm starting to lose my looks and panic about my biological clock, and I resent that my male friends don't have these worries yet. Almost all my female friends have settled down and started to have children, often making major compromises to do so. Almost all my male friends are still single and enjoying their freedom. It feels so unfair! It's more than that though: women have so much additional CRAP to deal with - prejudice, misogyny, objectification, being punished by society for getting older/not being conventionally pretty, feeling physically vulnerable... honestly, if I could go back to the moment of my conception, wave a magic wand and be created male instead of female, I would do it in a snap. Yet, none of my female friends feel the same way - even though most of them are relatively feminist in their views.

Maybe I just feel like this because I don't have children. Maybe it's just me, am generally a bit gloomy at the moment... but I thought it could be an interesting discussion. What would you choose? Try to set aside any feelings associated with having had babies, as this clearly adds a huge emotional aspect to the issue. I hope that any future children of mine will be boys. I really feel I wouldn't wish being born female on anyone - and I'm aware of how easy women in the UK have it compared to most of the rest of the world.

OP posts:
Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 20:23

MF: On the subject of being born female you said:
moonferret Mon 19-Sep-11 19:38:12
"but the main female advantage of sex when you want it (provided you're at least moderately attractive) has to outweigh them all. Of course, being female, most of you won't understand this."

On the subject of being in a relationship where no sex is had; you said:
moonferret Mon 19-Sep-11 19:56:53
I have read those threads, they confuse and baffle me. It's largely because they're stuck in a relationship with a man who's either hardly functioning properly, or else he does indeed regard her as a "minger".

From these statements I asked you a number of questions about what you considered to be important in a relationship and what you criteria you thought men-as-a-group employed when searching for a mate. I asked you:

Catitainahatita Mon 19-Sep-11 20:11:32
Are you saying the only reason to be in a relationship is to have sex then Moonferret?

And
Do you hold men in such low regard that you think that the only criteria they apply when choosing who to have sex with is "she is available and not a minger"? And how do "mingers" find mates in that case? "

I gave you what would be my own answers to those questions. But if you can't be bothered in considering your own answers that's fine. I will however form my own conclusions about what they might be. Not fair on you, yes. But hey, if you can't be bothered to explain yourself, you've only got yourself to blame when you are misinterpreted as a bit of a sexist.

moonferret · 19/09/2011 20:26

frumpyq Thanks for your first line...but surely you know that men have to be shot down here whatever they say?

And from your second line, I assume you mean I shouldn't have contributed at all?

SybilBeddows · 19/09/2011 20:27

funnily enough, not all men get shot down here.
Just the arseholes.

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 20:29

And from your second line, I assume you mean I shouldn't have contributed at all?

Not at all moonferret,i just guessed what the responses would be when you added a decent post from your male perspective.

You've not derailed it on purpose,i thought your post was helpful and insightful and should have been taken in the spirit it was offered.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 20:31

Any person that comes on a thread and spouts shit gets shot down

Females who try to derail threads by coming out with stupid statements also get short shrift

moonferret · 19/09/2011 20:32

Awww thanks frumpyq ..I did my best not to be confrontational, but some here just look for trouble. I should have guessed the responses as well to be honest. I just forget that a lot of people here can't have a debate. There's one just above your post.

Thanks again.

JeremyVile · 19/09/2011 20:32

The majority of smart, decent non- fuckwitted men must shudder every time some bitter little oddball pipes up as if he represents them all.

You don't moonferret, thank fuck.....you really don't.

moonferret · 19/09/2011 20:34

Yawn...

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 20:35

they always have a little hanger-on too

like the online equivalent of a clinker

sweet

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 20:36

I would much rather be a man, as long as I was over 6ft judging by the thread about dating shorter men. I am being serious here. I wish I had theability to have children without being the default main carer, be able to engage in no strings sex without the emotional fall out, some testosterone induced self confidence, no biological clock etc etc.

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 20:39

Are you saying that men don't get emotionally attached Wileycoyote?

You're not being helpful anyfucker.

KirstyJC · 19/09/2011 20:40

I would like to be a man for a day or two, preferably when it's been snowing....I've always wanted to write my name in the snow!

Otherwise, no I wouldn't. I like being me, I happen to have breasts but other than being grateful for the free drinks they got me when I was much younger they've not really defined me.

I like being able to wear either jeans or a skirt, I like that in my youth I could get drunk, and sleep with whomever I chose, yet still be the one who decided when and where and how. (And yes I realise I was fortunate in that).

I liked that I could be a tomboy or a girly girl- I don't think many men have that chance to be feminine. Although that is the problem of the cultural expecatations and perceptions of men rather than being male itself.

I like that I can be successful in my studies, my career and motherhood - I like to think it is a chance to show others that a woman is just a person the same as everyone else and can achieve what she wants dependent on luck and effort, same as everyone else.

I have experienced sexism - mostly from people who didn't realise it (the worst kind, as it's hardest to change) but by continuing to not conform to their expectations then hopefully enough of us, over time, will change this.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 20:41

Helpful to whom, frumpy ?

JeremyVile · 19/09/2011 20:42

Snort@ clinker!

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 20:44

I'm not getting into a personal slanging match with anyone here.

But have reported your post anyfucker.

You need to step back from being personal this isn't your website it has rules.

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 20:46

frumpy I'm not saying that men don't get emotionally attached, but I think many can separate love from sex..

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 20:48

frumpy I'm not saying that men don't get emotionally attached, but I think many can separate love from sex..

Would tend to agree with you there and maybe it's the gender construct they have endured that has made many of them like that?

But more and more women can also treat sex this way which makes me believe it possibly could be a human trait after all.

pamplemousserose · 19/09/2011 20:53

Yes I would prefer to be a man.
Being able to go out on my own at night
No periods
Sex without the risk of pregnancy
No bras
Not having my career being interrupted by having children
No worry about equal pay

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 20:54

frumpy I think if one agrees that it is the case then it is likely to be biological - men are less emotionally invested in sex if it is not with someone they are in love with or not with their primary partner because they don't end up with the resulting children to carry/birth/look after.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 20:54

that is your prerogative, frumpy

the r"ules" need to change wrt to Derailers? too (am talking about moonferret, not you, btw)

until MNHQ cop on to that, I will continue to point it out

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 20:55

rules

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 20:55

Although I'm sure SGB etc will argue against that and it appearssome women can have no strings sex. I have always found that if it is good sex and \I like the person I get emotionally involved.

PamBeesly · 19/09/2011 20:55
Catitainahatita · 19/09/2011 20:57

But Wiley I don't understand much of what you said on why you'd might like to be a man. The only thing I get is when you said you'd like not to be the "default carer". But the biological clock and the no strings sex are not gender/sex specific. Men's fertility (if that is what you refer to) declines with age although it might not disappear. And I have had no strings sex quite happily, as have many of my female friends. I think it's more about cultural expectations.

What I mean is: we expect men to be able to separate sex from love in some cases, and so it is "normal" that they might enjoy no strings sex. We don't expect women to be able to, so if they do some other explication is required.

This idea is why I also questioned Moonferret; I was questioning his presumptions about attitudes to sex and relationships as being reduced to a male/female thing.

frumpyq · 19/09/2011 20:57

All i'm trying to say anyfucker is that you could do that without being personal surely?

Rise above it and debate it?

wileycoyote do you think that women are trying too hard to achieve 'no feelings' sex and it could be damaging to them?

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