Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If you could choose... would you rather have been born male?

210 replies

wellwisher · 19/09/2011 14:13

I don't post in this section much, but this is inspired by the "Do you remember a specific moment where you realised that being female put you at a disadvantage?" thread.

I have become more feminist/aware of the disadvantages of being female as I've got older. The last few years, I've realised that if I could choose, I'd rather be male. I'm at an age where I'm starting to lose my looks and panic about my biological clock, and I resent that my male friends don't have these worries yet. Almost all my female friends have settled down and started to have children, often making major compromises to do so. Almost all my male friends are still single and enjoying their freedom. It feels so unfair! It's more than that though: women have so much additional CRAP to deal with - prejudice, misogyny, objectification, being punished by society for getting older/not being conventionally pretty, feeling physically vulnerable... honestly, if I could go back to the moment of my conception, wave a magic wand and be created male instead of female, I would do it in a snap. Yet, none of my female friends feel the same way - even though most of them are relatively feminist in their views.

Maybe I just feel like this because I don't have children. Maybe it's just me, am generally a bit gloomy at the moment... but I thought it could be an interesting discussion. What would you choose? Try to set aside any feelings associated with having had babies, as this clearly adds a huge emotional aspect to the issue. I hope that any future children of mine will be boys. I really feel I wouldn't wish being born female on anyone - and I'm aware of how easy women in the UK have it compared to most of the rest of the world.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 22:28

what exactly GN...that women in sexless relationships must be mingers ?

I don't think that's an issue worth discussing

it has no worth at all, IMO

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:29

the point is for society to change and be happy with diversity, not for us all to be the same. Good call, Lenin!

LeninGrad · 19/09/2011 22:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:31

No, obviously that part was just daft. The belief that men all want lots of sex and all women don't. As someone rightly said, the view of men as seekers and women as gatekeepers - very reductive and restrictive to both sexes.

madwomanintheattic · 19/09/2011 22:31

Grin yy snorbs. it's very juvenile. if moonferret is a grown man he ought to maybe get a life.

garlic, i'm in agreement re cultural stereotyping tbh. it makes me quite cross when women say they can't x,y and z (but not nearly as cross as when men say women can't x, y and z). but i don't think that's happening here - catita has spent quite a bit of time upthread querying whether 'casual sex' and 'emotional detachment' were essentially gendered or just cultural constraints? (by 'just' i'm not meaning to be dismissive, obv - cultural constraints being the most dificult ones to break free from)

(and that's why i'm cross with moonferret, for perpetuating ridiculous stereotypes)

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 22:33

What do you mean garlic, that the best man to raise children with may not be the alpha male so it may be a strategy to have casual sex with males that are not your main partner?
I am a water policy specialist not a biologist - can you tell!! Grin

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 22:36

The question I am trying to elucidate is what is the biological imperative for women to have casual/no strings sex??

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 22:42

wiley, to get the fittest (most healthy) sperm

survival of the fittest

natural selection

MarginallyNarkyPuffin · 19/09/2011 22:43

In answer to the OP, no. Never felt that way. Ever.

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:44

It's not about a male raising children. A neolithic woman would have been very stupid to iassume the sire of her offspring would be around for the next 12 years. It's about optimising the offspring's genes for survival. It's untrue that the fastest swimmer gets to implant - the egg 'admits' one sperm only; reasons not yet known, but it's a fair bet it's the one with the most desirable composition. Have sex with four different men at your most fertile time, your egg gets a lovely wide selection of candidates :)

Snorbs · 19/09/2011 22:44

We're humans. We've evolved to be able to choose courses of action that do not necessarily have to follow biological imperatives. Our ability to use our intellect to take ourselves beyond our instincts is what separates us from other animals.

omaoma · 19/09/2011 22:44

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread. But if we get to keep our background/demographic and country and only change our gender then, to answer your question: yes. Absolutely.

I don't hate the femaleness of being female in any way, I'm proud of giving birth and breastfeeding, but there is no doubt in my mind that life is easier for a man of the same background, culture and class as me. No spending half my life in either hormonal or bleeding hell! No being required to maintain much higher levels of randomly-assigned ideas of visual perfection! The money you'd save, the extra money you'd earn! The automatic increased status! The massively lower likelihood of being raped! These are not small things. I believe it's possible to be 'me' but a different gender, so I would go for the much, much easier life. The only situation that I think is worse for men is in wartime if there is a draft.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 22:47

or, wiley, if we take it to a more basic level

because women enjoy sex, and some women, at some times of their life, enjoy it with multiple partners

and why not indeed

garlicnutty · 19/09/2011 22:48

Thanks, AF :)

celadon · 19/09/2011 22:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MarginallyNarkyPuffin · 19/09/2011 22:59

AnyFucker, remember.

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 23:01

I know narks Blush

but where were you 2 hours ago ? Grin

PrideOfChanur · 19/09/2011 23:02

To answer the OP,f you'd asked me 20 years ago if I'd rather have been born male,then quite possibly I'd have said yes - because I'm not good at femininity,I don't enjoy it,and while I wasn't furious about my life as a woman I've never really felt postive about it,it came encumbered with all sorts of stuff I am not interested in and don't want to do.I wouldn't choose to be a man because issues like misogyny/lack of equal pay etc,and being better off in that way.

But I wouldn't want to have missed out on having the children and experiencing pregnancy and giving birth (horrible though it was in many ways...!),and I loved breastfeeding.It was also very liberating to be doing something undisputably female,for what felt like the first time I didn't feel that I had to work at being a woman,because I obviously was doing womanly stuff - look,babies!
(if that makes sense?)

Now I'm not so bothered because I now feel more confident in being the type of woman I am,I am less concerned with what other people make of that.
Society changing and being happy with diversity would be good!

MarginallyNarkyPuffin · 19/09/2011 23:10

Watching Source Code Grin

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 23:11

well, your < tumble weed > reminder would have been more useful then

can't you pay more attention ?

and The Source Code is crap Grin

AnyFucker · 19/09/2011 23:13

YOu are needed here narks ...

wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 23:29

Yes, AF, garlic, as a woman I like sex too, and I could easily have sex with a few different men particularly if I am ovulating - so far so good.

BUT, as much as I would like to, I can't get away with it emotionally. Having said that, I have no idea how men feel so I admit that my arguament is subjective and a bit crap. I just can't help thinking that equality for women as framed by the assertion we can have sex for it's own sake, no strings etc is alright in theory but unworkable in practice for most..

Generalisations/many stereotypes about gender anything probably have some basis in fact but obviously do not describe everyone as there are always individual differences.

madwomanintheattic · 19/09/2011 23:32

but as you say, you are an individual. and women have been told for donkey's years that they aren't naice gels if they put out. Grin

how you feel is how you feel. and how women feel as a group (if that's even possible) has been influenced by how they've been told they ought to feel.

it's kind of why i don't really care if i'm a man or a woman. neither is going to be an easy ride...

madwomanintheattic · 19/09/2011 23:33
wileycoyote · 19/09/2011 23:43
Grin Yeah, the double standard is crap, and I resent being fed the 'women are the gatekeepers of sex' shit referred to upthread.

For the novelty value and a laugh For serious research purposes I would like to try being a (tall) man for a couple of days though...

Swipe left for the next trending thread