If you could choose... would you rather have been born male?

[wellwisher]

I don't post in this section much, but this is inspired by the "Do you remember a specific moment where you realised that being female put you at a disadvantage?" thread.

I have become more feminist/aware of the disadvantages of being female as I've got older. The last few years, I've realised that if I could choose, I'd rather be male. I'm at an age where I'm starting to lose my looks and panic about my biological clock, and I resent that my male friends don't have these worries yet. Almost all my female friends have settled down and started to have children, often making major compromises to do so. Almost all my male friends are still single and enjoying their freedom. It feels so unfair! It's more than that though: women have so much additional CRAP to deal with - prejudice, misogyny, objectification, being punished by society for getting older/not being conventionally pretty, feeling physically vulnerable... honestly, if I could go back to the moment of my conception, wave a magic wand and be created male instead of female, I would do it in a snap. Yet, none of my female friends feel the same way - even though most of them are relatively feminist in their views.

Maybe I just feel like this because I don't have children. Maybe it's just me, am generally a bit gloomy at the moment... but I thought it could be an interesting discussion. What would you choose? Try to set aside any feelings associated with having had babies, as this clearly adds a huge emotional aspect to the issue. I hope that any future children of mine will be boys. I really feel I wouldn't wish being born female on anyone - and I'm aware of how easy women in the UK have it compared to most of the rest of the world.

I wouldn't and I have no idea why.

No. Not in general, and even less so as I am getting older and feel more at ease in my own skin. I think as a woman I have more choices obviously open to me than I would as a man (I may not get as far down some of those paths as I would if I were male, but I am aware even now that there is far more societal pressure on DS not to do stuff perceived as "for girls" than there is on the DDs not to do stuff perceived as "for boys"). And I don't think it's possible to set aside feelings associated with having had babies; having them and nurturing them is what I've spent a good deal of the last few years doing.

And I really wouldn't want a penis.

what fluffles and sgm said.

i'm an individual.

i see as many traps in masculinity as there are in femininity. living as a not particularly 'feminine' woman has it's drawbacks, but living as a not very 'masculine' man would also be problematic from a cultural pov.

i've had three kids. i still identify primarily as a person/ human/ individual and not particularly as a woman. it's just what i am. it doesn't define me. if i was a bloke i suspect i'd feel the same.

I think I would like to try it for a day or so, just to feel the difference in the way I am treated and regarded by others. On the whole I am pretty happy being a woman but when I was pregnant I was frightened of having a girl because of the world we live in. I now have a son and feel it's oh's and my duty to raise him with awareness of feminist issues and to view equality as the only way, well I can dream.

I would happily have forgone pregnancy, not childbirth though.

I don't think so. Perhaps when I was 8 or 9. I'm quite happy being me and also quite optimistic that things will get better for women as a group. It's so easy to get depressed at how crap certain things are now, but in comparision to how things were 30, 50 or 100 years ago, women's prospects in the UK and even where I live in Mexico have improved immensely. I think we just have not ignore the idea that women have nothing to complain about anymore and feminism is thus useless. It's just an effort to get us to shut up and accept the status quo.

I remember stating this very clearly in a conversation years ago and offended many people, but I shall say it again with the proviso that I am not trying to offend anyone, just explain my pov:

I think that in the 20th century the very patriarchal society in the west has come round to the idea that women have to be offered equal rights. The male ordered world seems to be alright with this as long as it doesn't mean that men-as-a-group should have to make changes in their behaviour or sacrifice their comforts. That is to say women can be accepted as long as the accept default majority is masculine and it is women who have to "adapt" in order to fit in. I want the world to change so that women as well as men fit into it without the need for special adaptions. This means that much of patriarchal society and its culture needs to be changed and men-as-a-group will have to modify their behaviour and expectations.

As far as I can understand from my interactions with people, it is precisely this aim of changing behaviour and expectations which provokes so much hostility from people, some male some female. It's quite understandable as no one really likes having to give up privileges and it can feel like you are being discriminated against. But imho it needs to be done if we are to enjoy a truely equal society.

I prefer my genitalia how they are, but I think on balance men have it easier in a number of important ways, and perhaps I would have been very happy as a bloke. The idea of having children without compromising your body, having a career path assumed rather than tolerated, and being able to go where I like without fear of physical attack is very tempting.

Absolutely love being female. I always have, I had 2 brothers and can remember being very young and very thankful that I was a girl.

Ican't even think that it has been a disadvantage at any point.

I would, of course, rather be me and change the world instead.

But when I thought how much easier my life would be if I was a man..yes, I wish I was born one. I would not have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously at work. I could raise my voice and people would just say I have a strong personality. I could have slept around as single and have the reputation of a stud, not slut. I would not have the biological clock ticking and everybody reminding me of that. I could have kids and keep working, nobody would call me a bad parent who tries to "have it all". And so on.

Well, I'm doing the best I can and should not really complain about my life.. but it is such an uphill struggle sometimes..

Well, I'm male and this has been interesting reading. I'd have been female given the choice. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no doubt about my gender, but I think being female is preferable overall. The thing is, being male has a lot of advantages...but the main female advantage of sex when you want it (provided you're at least moderately attractive) has to outweigh them all. Of course, being female, most of you won't understand this.

And the poster who said she'd always wondered what sex is like for a man with a woman..it's physically awkward a lot of the time! And it can also make you feel rather stupid! The woman's "role" would be far more fun, relaxing, enjoyable...!

I decided to look at this in a personal context - me and my sibs (large family.)
We all have issues with self-worth, identity and relationships. So that's not gender-based; it's due to bad parenting.
We have been variously successful in our careers, so that's not gender-based.
We've all worried about our attractiveness, ageing, fitness, etc, so that's not gender-based either. In fact, the men seem more anxious to fight ageing than the women.
Exactly half of us have had children; exactly distributed between the sexes. It was all down to luck & circumstances - not gender-based. The childless brothers could still sire children, I guess, with a younger partner, but show no signs of doing so. That is a biological difference; women don't get the second-chance option.
I would say the men display more "entitlement" than the women, but it's only a matter of swagger. I know they don't feel any more entitled than their sisters.
We've discussed the comparative effects of ageing on careers. We agree that, while ageing's a problem for all, it hits women harder and sooner.
We also agree there is a glass ceiling for women. It's hard to smash it.
Amongst us, the women tend to have more close friendships than the men do.

So, on balance, there's not much difference in terms of everyday life experience. There are career benefits to being a man. There are emotional benefits to being a woman.

But there's one thing that would definitely sway me in favour of being a man! PERIODS!!

um. the main advantage of being a woman is sex when you want it? and that has to outweigh everything else?

as long as you're moderately attractive?

gee. i had no idea that's what i was supposed to feel. huh. you learn something every day.

i feel like i've entered another universe. quite right that i don't understand it as a woman. quite quite right.

Heidi wrote: I could raise my voice and people would just say I have a strong personality. I could have slept around as single and have the reputation of a stud, not slut.

I know these are real problems. I also get that things may have changed after my generation ... But I never had either of those issues? Have things changed that much? Or is it mostly about what you think other people think??

madwoman

moonferret haven't you read th numerous threads from women who aren't getting any sex at all ?

are you saying they must all be mingers?

madwomanintheattic Yes, pretty much. Unless you're a rich man of course, in which case you have the best of both worlds. And as I said, women won't understand it. This is because of course it's not what they want, and so they can't relate to it as being the advantage it is. Are you following this?!

I have read those threads, they confuse and baffle me. It's largely because they're stuck in a relationship with a man who's either hardly functioning properly, or else he does indeed regard her as a "minger".

Oh.....please!

Oh dear, moonferret, you have bought into a load of old claptrap, haven't you.

That is the only vaguely, partially reasonable explanation I can come to!

moonferrret, you hold the views of a sexist pillock

did you mean to come across like that ?

Sorry garlicnutty, no reasonable counter argument or discussion means no serious reply.

Moonferret, if you're not getting all the sex you want then perhaps you ought to unming yourself.

The same applies to others as well...