Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: For the Love of Well Dressed Women in Repose

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

Consignment shops, Vintage, and Restaurants

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Previous threads:

Un

Deux

Trois

Quatre

Cinq

Six

Sept

Huit

Neuf

Dix

Onze

Douze

Treize

X-posted, I just ordered a load of samples from there (they're free unlike elsewhere) and it's always a mixed bag, I just look at fabric content and any colour that vaguely look good it's very much practice fabric for me. I'm hoping to be able to see a proper fabric shop sometime this year (Paris or London), I'm not convinced shopping for fabric online is advantageous at all, except for price.

Matches works for me now, and it's making me doubt the weird darts, maybe it is just the pocket attachment but it's such an odd detail and the fabric puckers quite a bit so maybe it is just the pocket attachment.

Question about oversized - how is that, in your opinion, meant to fit? It's not the same as clothes being too big, is it? Because then I could just buy a coat three sizes up and be done. I'm thinking that at some point it fits, say at the shoulders, but there is more volume in the cut or more length? Was pondering this with all the oversizing going on. It has to be different from merely being too big.

The JW Anderson was cute but not terribly interesting. The things I liked best were the sleeveless blouse and the sleeveless dress. And that is because I am secretely an awful sucker for that sort of colonialist linen in Indochine look. I'm not proud of it, but it's definitely style goals for me.

I liked the colourblock socks alright.

I too look like I'm in a uniform in pale blue shirtdresses, and not like the pretty ward nurse, like the homely one who struggles with the move from the country and gets scolded regularly by Matron for having a poorly starched wimple or something.

Flo, the premium linen isn't going to be that premium anyway. (I sort of hope.) Just 100%. I think they do blends for women because it's easier to care for and women do their own ironing. I think it's misguided and not what we want, but I think it's one reason.

And speaking of that, I loved the article Duvet, it was very interesting. It's been discussed before on here, I know, but it was interesting nonetheless to read how all the fashion people are saying it really is crunch time. I'd love it if the current system failed. I like whatshername saying that the shop she'd opened is what saved her, because I want real shops and I like the idea of different designers in different places doing their own things so travelling can be about discovering those shops too, like in Ye Olden Times of Yore. I've noticed som many more direct to consumer brands but with them it's very hard to know if they're worth taking a punt on or if they're scams (esp if they are FB ads).

Prettybird RIP your shirt! I just noticed that my favourite most versatile jersey top is on it's last legs, the fabric is almost transparent at the nape of the neck. Such a good top. I might have to attempt to copy it.

I don't see the double darts on the Lemaire dress and I agree that removing the buttons and just making seams would do something else to the look. I still think it'd be good, but it wouldn't be the same. I think not doing proper buttonhole buttons might end up looking vaguely disappointing though.

Ah well, could be worse, Bani, you could be descended from a long line of colonials in linen

Yes, I don't think they're darts either now, just a weird pocket attachment. Here's my ammended sketch (hope the dotted lines are visible in smaller format), I think the sleeves may be a bit more slanted, the shoulders seem to end within that V band that carries on in the back (but looks to be a separate piece) and I think that follows the direction of the sleeves. Yes, if no buttons, just sewing it closed wouldn't be as nice.

Oversized, I think it's a special form of grading, normally it goes something like 1cm up and 1cm to the side depending on where the point is but I think in oversized it doesn't do that proportionally so it'll become larger lengthwise but not as much width, so deeper armscyes but not super long sleeves or giant waists. I think it evens out as being one size bigger breadth wise but about two or more lengthwise (but total length doesn't increase much as that's easy to trim off and I assume where the waist, hip, bust sits doesn't change too much).

I've finally managed to read the article in full too, it's compounded for me the sense that global brands are dying and that to survive they need to cater to local markets and not be everywhere and that's probably a good thing (for the unholy alliance of sparkly shit).

I've never really gotten on board with DTC, something has always put me off despite them ticking a lot of boxes and that article sort of spelled it out for me, it's venture capitalists posing as small independents.

Great that he's doing well but I just don't understand the appeal of pastel hoodies for $88, but going by my consumption patterns I think I'm just not a DTC target consumer which seems to capitalise on responding on current emotional tides just in time. I'm a bit more old school fashion method of looking for what's next before it exists.

Bo I am the same with wanting what's next before it exists, but with home decor, I usually scour the earth looking for the exact fabric or make up curtains from dress materials and then 3 years later my oh so quirky rooms are in every department store and I have to live like the masses

DTC is ripe for ripping off the customer, while posing behind a glossy insta page of small ethical hard working mummy blogger types just doing this for you guys

I'm hoping for a change with longer lasting all season shopping. That would be amazing. I dont want to have to buy shorts now, it's snowing here today and I in previous years if I hadn't bought shorts by Easter the pickings were slim by the first actually hot day.

Bani from my recent purchases and experimentation with regards to oversized. I think the key is that is needs to fit in the shoulders.

Though my widest point is my shoulders so it may be my body shape.
As I'd mentioned I've lost quite a bit of weight so thought I was getting away with older clothes doing the oversized look. However, I've since bought some oversized shirts and jumpers in my new size which fit, the seam sits perfectly on the shoulder.

In the old clothes I look "tired, gaunt and thrown together" even with the same care over hair, makeup etc. In the new clothes it seems purposeful and I look put together and "you look well, quite good actually" (quotes from my mother who I have barely seen due to lockdown)

Also in regard to the ugly/not at all ugly shoe, are clogs just a no no in Scandinavian countries? Would it be like me wearing an aran with a tin whistle in my pocket
I have a pair from Moheda which have a bit of rubber in the bend of the sole and are unbelievably comfortable whilst achieving that ugly, sensible, cool look

I meant that just sewing it closed, ie changing the buttoned sides to plain sideseams, would be nice but not the same at all. But making false buttons would be not as nice - I think at least you'd need the outline of buttonholes and that opening at the bottom for it to work and if you go to all the work of making buttonholes you might as well slit them open and go for functional buttons.

God I don't know, dreaming of colonialist style from three steps removed might be even worse (see also dark tropical hardwood floors and furniture, white walls, open porches, mosquito nets and those open, woven day beds).

Don't understand the pastel sweatshirts either, but at least someone is happy.

I get the feeling people are just referring to stuff with dropped shoulders and too big as oversize?

I think the problem with DTC for me is trust - how do you know it's not a complete rip-off? At least if you try out a few things in a shop, you get a feel for the brand and can make some sort of judgment. With DTC there's nothing.

Ah, but there's always a huge SM push alongside those DTC brands, there's the 'trust'. Young millennials and gen z put a lot in that. Oh the day they figure it out will be an ugly one.

While I agree there should be more perennial shops, problem is DTC has cornered this market already with the idea of quality basics and capsule wardrobes. It's still dancing around the hot potato that supposed quality long lasting enduring clothes are a democratic thing, they're not, you can be lucky and find a quality piece on the cheap somewhere but to have it consistently and at immediate availability you need to have the funds for it. Going from a £30 jumper to a £90 isn't really raising the stakes much, you'd need to quantify to £300, realistically, but DTC brands are very convincing at making £90 seem like a huge leap in quality when it isn't. It's just revealing how low the base line is.

I agree Bani, that it's not as nice with fake buttons but my machine would not manage a decent looking buttonhole on such thick fabric even if I was halfway decent at making buttonholes. I'd take a punt at doing them by hand as it's just a narrow strip of fabric so no harm done if you mess up or I'd try a more challenging but probably a lot more doable bound buttonhole that will look very good and it's a good skill to learn.

I think oversize is tricking, for me it fits on the shoulder but it is dropped so roughly a size bigger or purposefully dropped and not fitted on the shoulder. But it's often the enlargement of other things too like pockets, lapels or sleeves, it's a lot of play on proportions.

I do get Duvet's experience of actual too large clothes not looking good but IME it's a range too, at a size 10 I could easily wear a 12 and it would be fine, as an 8 I looked like a drowned rat in the same item but as soon as I went down to a 6 I could wear the 12 again and it looks oversized in an intended way 🤷

I haven't listened to the panel yet, but it's an interesting insight into consumer trends and localism.

How localism will reshape the retail landscape

Though I'm inclined to disagree to an extent of people willing to shop online more as it's become so convenient, IME it's become less convenient in pandemic times due to delays with delivery and returns. For people who never shopped much online before, it seems to have put them off entirely.

The SM push is exactly the bit I don't trust since so much is paid for in one way or another. So many naughty influencers.

@CatherineMaitland

The SM push is exactly the bit I don't trust since so much is paid for in one way or another. So many naughty influencers.

Same, but if you've grown up with that as the norm you don't really question it, you know it's not completely honest but it feels honest enough. Same way we didn't really question magazine content as acid readers. We knew there were a lot of ads between the pages that covered more of the cost than our individual purchases did but we had no idea how much those advertiser's dictated, from what type of articles would be placed opposite their ads to the exact content of those ads. Magazines lost all trust once that became clear and they've never really recovered.

*avid readers I never read a magazine on acid 😱😂

Thanks for your thoughts @botemp and @banivani, I agree without buttons it’s a different dress but then I’m scared that without them it will be a ruined dress if it goes wrong. I’ll have a think about it. I guess if the buttons don’t work out I can always remove the button bands and stitch through as in the original plan.

Yes I figured too that the stitching on the front of the Lemaire dress is for securing the pocket rather than darts. I imagine that’s to keep the pocket bag in place when the dress is worn open.

Attached is my not so beautiful but useful dress plan.

Interesting discussion re oversize. For me, it’s often plain large, ie wearing DP’s sweatshirt but it’s always part of deliberate choice. I find oversized trousers most interesting to ponder, dropped crotch and wide legs need a neat waist IMO (apart from a pair of Alix trousers from Toast which are huge everywhere and I look like a toddler but then I treat them as house trousers eg rarely appear in public in them).

I am looking forward at seeing how *luggage’s” dress progresses . It looks a really interesting silhouette.
I think in general I end up doing large/too big in the top if I go for a dress that fits perfectly at the bottom part... I wish it would look oversized... I think in general looks a bit on the big side / not fitting well on me ... oh well.
I think I can do oversized trousers better, I can play with fitted tops / tucked in and larger bottoms and looks a bit more intentional with my body shape.

Thanks for that article 70s - I didn't manage to take it all in on a single read but really interesting. My oh my what a mess. There's a thread running on why is everything so shit with lots of posters saying what's the point of of paying for 'quality' when it turns out to be no more reliable than Sainsbury's? Hard to argue with. There's going to be carnage isn't there and I can see the so called higher end brands coming out of it very badly. But I'm equally hmm about DTC; if influencers are involved then 'Direct' is a bit of misnomer. Yeah magasines weren't a lot better but at least they smelt nice and the writers could spell.

Very good question about when 'oversize' crosses the line into 'too big'. I pondered this when I was taking that shirt in. Shoulders are definitely involved although I'm less fussy than some cos nothing ever fits me there - it's one reason I'm keen to make more of my own clothes. Also under the arms - the biggest problem with that shirt was probably all the excess fabric around the pits. And sleeves, even though I always roll or push them up, it looks silly if they're too big. Basically there needs to be some points on the body where it does fit, and yes things like collars and cuffs need to be in proportion.

After a week's break I've looked again at the +J buys and sadly the jumper is still too high and does my neck and jawline no favours. You're probably right that it'll relax with wear and washing but I haven't got the patience - one morning I'd just grab the neckline in both hands and give it a yank and it's probably not sturdy enough to withstand it.

I might still look out for a medium but, from Elle's report that might not work either. There's also a version in the men's collection but but I'm not sure if it was ever in navy plus just thinking about guessing the fit again makes me want to go and lie down.

I feel absurdly bereft. I know, I know pass me a grip. But it's spot on apart from the neck and basics that dress up well are so hard to find.

Flo, being bereft by clothes is awful. I've just come back from my department store appointment there's no #capitalistbliss high this time. A lot of brands have pulled out and the replacements are the annoying casual overpriced Dutch ones that look shit on me, so I'm a bit blue too. I take it all back about localisation, I want my foreign brands back (although they did have a small selection of American Vintage and Iro back again, I was glad to see those). In other news, everything S/S is fucking pastel 🤮

I think what is key with oversized is that it reads as generous, it's like a cousin of luxurious, less blingy but still with impact. Material matters too, something with texture or pattern is easier to do than something plain weave and thin.

I only read a bit of that thread and it seemed to be too much collective venting to point out that workers are thankfully getting paid better (still not enough but it's getting somewhere) than 10 and especially 25 years ago but the prices are still the same, something else had to give. I think we've become rather spoiled with what we are entitled to on the high street.

Oh yeah definitely. But I think the point that there's little or no consistency in the mid-top end of the high street now, so what's it for? And that you may as well pay bargain basement prices and keep on replacing, is actually a reasonable one.

I've sent for some more shirting fabric from Cloth House - it's their end of range stuff and some of it's already gone but that should be the link to the general page. Arguably it's not the most sensible time to order fabric online when real shops are set to start up again (in England) next week but I'm a bit fearful of what's actually going to reopen in these parts.

I have some blue Lotta clogs like those, 70sduvet. I got rid of some slip on ones that crucified my feet, unfortunately (high instep). The sandal style seem to fit me better, lower on the toe.

Talking about not trusting brands, I read an article about Boohoo reselling deadstock through lots of its websites. In particular, Oasis skirts at Karen Millen prices, with the brand name scribbled out.

lots of posters saying what's the point of of paying for 'quality' when it turns out to be no more reliable than Sainsbury's? yes this is my problem a lot of the time. I can’t afford the really high end things and I have no guarantee that forking out an extra 500 or even 1000 is going to get me a true increase in quality. Outerwear (as in take a hike) is more reliable because to a greater extent those are nerds making clothes for nerds. I skimmed that thread and I agree that there needs to be a discussion about what clothes really have to cost. People in general I’ve noticed seem a little unaware of how much cheaper clothes have become I think. Including myself! But nobody knows anymore what quality is. PD James often has details about clothes in her books. Things like people noticing someone else wearing a jumper made from good wool. This nuances are lost on so many people these days - I mean I’m a little interested and could probably see of something was wool or acrylic, but could I tell how good it was ...

Oversized a cousin of luxurious, yy. Not just your boyfriend’s shirt!

Flo, so sorry about fucking +J and the fucking pandemic and the fucking online shopping and so on and so on!

I agree that oversized probably relies on lots of factors: your own body shape, cut, fabric, texture etc. For instance, I know that sheath style dresses can look good on me if they are just loose enough to not look like a sack and make me look tall and slim, or not too tight that they make me look too up and down like a rectangle. Sometimes oversize can work if the whole garment isn't oversized, Toast can be quite a culprit, I agree, though I have an aubergine jumper of theirs that works because it is quite short despite being wide.

The article about Boohoo reselling deadstock through it's websites, but padding them off as different brands is on BBC.

Yes, I completely understand that rationalisation, Flo, the middle has well and truly been eroded, so I definitely get the bottom end market appeal and it is insane to snottily tell people to just save up for something.

Yes, Bani, I agree what quality is exactly has gotten a bit lost, a lot of that is down to industrialisation though, it's brought a lot of good too and that does have to do with consistency (not talking sizing here). Whenever there's a thread on here about quality brands I sometimes have to do a double take and wonder if a brand that really isn't that great is considered a quality baseline, what other crap have they been looking at

Ok, I apologise, I'm a weirdo. I've gotten overinvested in luggage's dress, my evening sewing related project was done much quicker than expected (scaling down my bodice blocks to half scale) and I didn't want to work on my blazer as that required too much maths and the sketch was still on my table so ehm, I did this at half scale and now I'm completely embarrassed as I feel I've hijacked someone else's dress but I just wanted to figure it out, as the band at the top curving round was confusing me so I needed a 3d version... I can probably pdf the pattern, Luggage

We had an interesting discussion today about how hard you are on your clothes. I am chief laundress in our house so it's not how the clothing is cared for, but DH can run through every type of garment from high end to lower end extremely quickly. (Granted high end might last a little longer, and we now get his Barker shoes resoled every 2 months, he is that heavy footed, and no not over weight)

My clothes will last for years and usually don't show much signs of wear, even the cheap low end stuff doesn't "fall apart", I have Primark things from my teens stillnon regular rotation (after a few years of hibernation )

My DS's clothes are as new when he moves up a sizes whereas his cousins clothes are only fit for the bin. My sister is also someone who regularly needs to replace clothes but my mother rarely does.

So often in threads where posters bemoan the quality of some say tshirt looking like a rag after a month, can it just be down to how they wear it?
It seems to be the case in our house.

I've had a massive mix of clothing values over the years. 10-20 years ago I could spend freely. For the past 10 years money has been tight as I was medically retired in my mid thirties as the main wage earner, which cut the wind out of my sails a good bit.

I've been following that thread too Flo and the arguments are valid.

My grandmother is 94 and has easily paid £70 for a skirt since the 1980s and she is a working class woman who likes to be well dressed. She will still save now and spend £300 on a skirt or a pair of shoes and has adjusted for inflation.

Whereas I have the £300 and a severe want to spend a few days visiting every charity shop in the nearest few towns. So I have taken to ebay.

I have seen this vintage jaegar wool jacket/coat and would like any opinions?
I have never really worn anything like this before as with my very straight up and down body shape, and I used to wear my hair as a short back and sides, it read too butch. I now have a longish bob and think it will soften it enough.

I'm thinking it could be a good Spring/Autumn option. The sizing appears to be correct in that it will fit on the shoulders and be oversized in the right way.
I just have to get over the feeling I could have found it in a charity shop for £6 but its still a good deal for the £35 if I were to win it on ebay yes?

70sduvet, I'm quite straight up and down. I find blazers/coats need to come in and be somewhat shaped for the waist. It's hard to see on the photo, though. Usually, sellers provide measurements or you could ask for some.

I'm very hard on shoes and bags, less so on other clothes but I think that's partly because I'm fickle and shallow so get bored before they've worn out, which is a luxury my mum and aunties and grandmothers didn't have. They certainly looked after their clothes better than I do, although I try harder now.

Yes I think we've all lost touch with how much clothes really cost. I've probably told this story before (in fact probably more than once) but I've still got a wool jumper I bought in the mid 80s. It cost about £40 and, even though I had a reasonable job, I had to save up to buy it. Now Uniqlo would sell it for £35.

What's funny is that the price of second hand clothes started rising around the same time as the cost of new was falling. First some marketing genius came up with the idea calling it 'vintage' and then Kate Moss was photographed in it and that was that.

Anyway Jaegar - now there's a company that tried to uphold quality and look what happened to them. My only real concern 70s would be with the is-it-a-coat-or-is-it-a-jacket length as I find it's not as versatile as you'd expect, apart from with slim trousers/jeans. But if that's not an issue for you then that sounds like a great price and the quality will almost certainly be superb.