Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: For the Love of Well Dressed Women in Repose

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

Consignment shops, Vintage, and Restaurants

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Previous threads:

Un

Deux

Trois

Quatre

Cinq

Six

Sept

Huit

Neuf

Dix

Onze

Douze

Treize

70sduvet it is hard to see from the picture but my guess, based on the time period it seems to be from, would be that it's not very shaped at the waist, but wider on the shoulders so a slight triangle shape iyswim. Fabric looks great though.

Jaeger could have done better if they'd made their online shop a little better I think. I for one was sitting here abroad, liking the look of the quality, but hesitant because I wasn't sure of measurements. It's a real shame that they folded/merged into M&S. Again - models in a few different sizes showing the clothes, the model's measurements, honest garment measurements in different sizes ... there's a lot you can do.

I'm hard on all my possessions -- not ludicrously so but quite. Some of it is laziness/too much laissez faire so I don't take care of things, some of it is a tendency to for example drag my feet which wears shoes out faster. I also cycle so trousers wear out at the inner thigh/crotch which is very hard to fix and make it look oooh cool boro style. But I've made the same reflection as when people say the item disintegrated at the first wash - this never happens to me. They don't disintegrate! But if I've followed the label and it becomes different after the wash then I complain (a staunch follower and child of Swedish consumer law and standardisation). Different is not disintegration though.

Am wearing my uniqlo +J shirt today with the uniqlo U "barrel" jeans. I'm a complete shill. Am wearing the shirt untucked and going for "member of the new world order" look, but I'll try tucking it in front and play around. As I've said I don't look that cool in the worker's uniform, I just look like a worker. One of the extras, not the star of the film.

This is the first time since my childhood I've worn a cotton shirt and I'm enjoying the feel. Wearing it I realise how well it fits, considering. No pulling at the breasts. Quite pleased!

I think Jaegar are a good example of how hard it is now to maintain that quality / corporatewear / fashion balance - and this was even before lockdown. I think Me and Em manage it pretty well, although I know they get ciriticised for using synthetics; and Winser; The Fold too, if they've survived the pandemic? Maybe Baukjen? After that I'm struggling for UK labels. With Jaegar it wasn't lack of trying - they had the Black label and at least one other that was more fashion forward - but I think they were slow to pick up on workwear becoming less formal, and this was years before Covid. Plus I think it's easy to forget the toll that the financial crash must have taken on them.

Oh oh oh! Forget all my navel gazing - I managed to grab a +J silk cotton jumper in medium navy. Yes Elle is probably right and there will be more tears when it arrives on Friday but, for the next couple of days, the world is a happier place

Justine reviewing COS, pattern, style, quality, kind of what we were saying. Are you there, Justine?

I know there's been talk on here in the past about chunky vintage jewellery.

This vintage Georg Jensen heavy silver & gold bangle is what my dad gave me for my 60th yesterday - and the Daisy Georg Jensen bracelet (and earrings and necklace) is what dh, independently, got for me

I love how the vintage bangle actually looks more modern than the Daisy bracelet

prettybird, Happy Birthday for yesterday! Very nice, I am also currently wearing a Georg Jensen - loopy chain, that I got for my 50th from my parents, the silver beads are are repurposed necklace from the 90s (Liberty's - Dinny Hall or Dower and Hall?) and the squarer one is a vintage bracelet I bought from Haywards Gallery on the South Bank, in the 90s also, but was already vintage/secondhand at the time, I've recently(ish) had a new safety chain put on and had the clasp mended .

Came on to post the Justine video great minds! Am watching it now (she’s still shopping).

Flo so pleased for you! Until the tears!

That's a lovely combination quirkychick

Prettybird what a gorgeous bracelet! Well both are. I hope you get much enjoyment out of wearing it.
And many happy returns!

Mixed metals is something I have been playing with today, my silver coloured wedding band is finally too big so I put it on my middle finger and put a very cheap gold band my sister used while nursing (working not feeding) on my wedding finger, then have been playing with layering gold and silver chains to try and have a basic look for most days.
A cuff something like yours would tie it all together perfectly.
I always wore many many layered bracelets but took them off for covid contamination reasons, possibly was too wary really.

I've taken on board the feedback on the jacket.
I want to wear it more as a coat, I'm often still very cold in Spring so thought this might be good for over the jeans and linen shirt/tshirt type outfits.
But the shape may be too boxy and I'd be better with something with a nip at the waistband.
Max Wall is not the look 😳

No matter, I can keep looking. I know I want to try and get the most I can for my money and have to time to scroll.

And great job Flo you were never going to settle until you'd tried it. Hopefully it will live up to itself

I will watch Justine tonight

bani, it's pretty much what we were talking about, very interesting to hear a designer talk about fabric composition and finishing seams.

It seems I have a thread hive mind with bani and prettybird . Your dh and father have good taste!

70sduvet, I mostly wear silver, but I have been mixing metals a bit. Gold isn't so good on my skin tone, but if I mix it in with silver, it doesn't seem to matter so much. I have a brass cuff, that I layer with silver bangles too.

@70sduvet So often in threads where posters bemoan the quality of some say tshirt looking like a rag after a month, can it just be down to how they wear it?”

Whenever someone complains on mumsnet about a garment turning to rags after one wash I always want to ask if they bothered to iron it. Mumsnet is weirdly anti-ironing and I often see posters bragging about how they never iron anything because life’s too short, rather be drinking gin and watching Bridgerton etc. But many garments really need a good press after washing. Viscose is a real offender here, it tends to go raggy after being washed and requires a lot of careful ironing to make it look halfway decent, which is a reason to avoid it, IMO. And almost all cotton needs ironing, I’ll even swipe a coolish iron down my knitted cotton jumpers after washing to relax the fibres and make them hang better.

It’s true that garment quality has declined massively, but also people forget that clothing requires care in order to look its best.

(I posted a few times in the first couple of Parisienne threads but have lurked ever since, just in case you’re wondering who this interloper is)

Testing 1,2,3, have been having tech issues with this site but I think I can post again without it being a painful exercise.

Sorry, have to disagree with ironing, I have to be careful because it's akin to bog brushes, washing towels and linens as soon as someone looks at them, etc. here on MN. There's a few items that improve with ironing but it's not much, cotton sheets and cotton work shirts, IMO. Silk, cellulose based fibres, wool, cashmere, etc. don't look great ironed, it dulls and flattens. Steaming vertically does drastically change their appearance and is a lot less time consuming. I remember we had a housekeeper once who ironed absolutely everything, underwear, jeans, athletic socks, towels, everything looked insane and was uncomfortable to wear. But agree that understanding how to care for clothes is a bit of a lost art, no one seems to own clothing brushes anymore (lint rollers don't count) or know what/how they're used.

I do think clothes can disintegrate way too quickly with some people. Some people overuse washing powder, use liquid detergent in very hard water areas, excessively use all the extra products like fabric softener, high temps, high heat dryer, etc. My father is famous for his ability to destroy clothing through washing, we're still not sure how exactly, even innocently putting a load in the dryer seems to end in destruction. On top of that he's someone with the type of sweat that destroys fabric, it literally just disintegrates the fibres, it's not especially pungent or noticeable except in how clothes fall apart at an increased rate and having to spot treat those areas further limits the lifespan. The lower the quality, the quicker they go.

Lovely bangles pretty and quirky and happy belated birthday pretty, I love a bit of Georg Jenson, I went to one of their workshops in Copenhagen once.

I only ever saw Jaegar in its end days as TKmaxx sold some here. Ehm, yes, the materials and finishes were good but my goodness the cuts were dowdy and not in a this was once fashionable way, it was just dowdy from inception.

I bought a lovely Jaeger suit 33 years ago in a sort of blue/grey/teal colour, with a curved tulip shaped jacket and a straight skirt that my mum shortened slightly. It cost me a fortune but it was for the product launch of the product I'd just taken over. My mum and I spent the day in London searching for something cheaper before going back to Jaeger. Got a greenery-grey peacock Liberty print shirt to wear with it that I wore buttoned up with a nice brooch at the neck.

Aaah, memories.

I still have the suit somewhere, but doubt I could fit into it

Late congratulations, Prettybird! Georg Jensen was, like, the epitome of class when I was young. Lovely bracelets!

On the other side of the spectrum from people who ruin things in the wash are the people who magically don't. Mr Bani just throws everything in the machine and no colours run, nothing gets crushed into permanent wrinkles. It's maddening. And I washed a pair of his jeans at a normal temperature once and they came out wrong and there was no end of bitching.

Jaeger was definitely in that staid slightly country English style for sure. But they were trying to go more fashun I think and could have made something happen. IMO they could, maybe, have hit a "classics" spot which is a bit lacking, with clothes that are perhaps not super exciting but will last a long time. So not dowdy but not fashion. A magical place! (where I perhaps want to live with the other wallpapers ) I might be being generous now in retrospect.

I don't know if MN is particularly ironing averse, I'd say Swedes are much more so but I seldom hear people here saying things have "disintegrated" in the wash -- I'm inclined to agree with the ironing idea in part. Having worked in a dry-cleaners I can say there is an art to ironing well (not saying I do, mind). That work experience has me ruined for life and I immediately notice when things aren't ironed/pressed. Viscose needs a bit of heat and steam to reshape well alright, but it depends a bit on the quality. I prefer ironing from the reverse, to avoid those flat seams and outlines of seam allowances. Tencel is very stable. I'd like to add that how you hang your laundry matters too! A good shake and plenty of room to spread it out to dry does wonders. Cramming it on the radiator does not.

I agree that some people seem very taken aback at the concept that a garment will come out of the wash looking differently and needing work. If you don't want this to happen, dry clean your item and let's face it, that's not fresh like water cleaning is. But this is partly the result of hard work during the 70s to free us from the tyranny of micromanaging our clothes wash, drip dry and go!

Welcome Terracotta, stick around! :D

Yeah, don't dry things on radiators, what's the point of that? I dry things on hangers, in NL we traditionally dry indoors in an attic on a rack if you have it or over the staircase void, the latter works particularly well. But everyone has a rack of some sorts or they're considered a heathen.

Viscose is also one that needs a steam and reshape and then be left to hang loose to 'relax' because ironing confuses the poor thing and thinks it's suddenly shorter. And don't get me started on overstuffed wardrobes, what's the point of all that ironing and then squashing the life out of it?

The things that do piss me off with ironing is there are just some cottons and linens that just remain looking crap no matter how much you iron or steam iron it. Mango is especially guilty of this, I have a thin cotton camisole from them and it does this, inexplicably remain creased despite ironing attempts, it'll go flat but there's still creases iykwim. I don't mind it too much with the camis as it's thin and not fitted at all has a large distracting design detail and worn only when it's excruciatingly hot and no one gives a shit how crumple free you are on those days but it drives me mad while attempting to iron it and that time is indeed better spent on Bridgerton and gin 🤬

I've noticed this with sewing too, the higher the quality of fabric, the easier it is to work with. So on top of feeling bad that these fast fashion workers are paid peanuts, they're also forced to work with shitty fabric that makes life more difficult for them.

Yeah poor sods. And they prob get their wages docked for "failures".

Radiator drying - well you've got to do what you've got to do... I know from relatives that this was the most reliable drying method in winter so had to be used. But not used for anything you'd want to look nice. On of the upsides of communal laundry rooms which is what I've always used is having access to big drying rooms with lots of space to hang clothes, which helps minimise wrinkling.

Bo, have you talked about rice water on your curly hair thread? My hair is so flyaway and looks so raggedy, it's doing my head in and I'm desperate to try something. I just want it to hold together and look a bit sleek.

Yes, I'm versed in the rice water, it requires planning and fermentation though. The science I'm a little iffy about, and a lot of the online recipes are a bit crap. It's good if hair's a bit lank, returns a bit of body.

Hm, don't know if that's my problem. Googling stuff is so useless these days, just a lot of shitty magazine "articles" and ads.

Well for sleek you can try that new lamellar water technology, there's several L'Oréal iterations, follow up with a blow dry as it responds to heat so it'll have better results than with air drying. Or Olaplex 3, but that's more if you've got damage.

I use a silk organza press cloth when ironing to avoid dulling the surface/crushing the nap. I agree, it’s easy to overdo it though. Most things only need a bit of warmth and a light touch. Often I’ll just work steam into the fabric and then hold it in with my hands for 5ish seconds instead of using the iron’s soleplate, as this will relax the fibres without flattening them. I agree that wool tends to do better with vertical steaming.

Anyway, I’ve got a bit sidetracked. The reason why I posted here was because I’ve just received this shirt from the +J range. I’m really impressed by the cut. The front tents out slightly from the boobs which shortens the horizontal front hem, which then allows the A-line flappy bit at the back to come into view. A subtle but interesting detail where the designer has thought about how the fabric is going to sit on a woman’s body. It’s a clever way of using the breasts to alter the shape elsewhere. It strikes me that most designers only think as far as either showing breasts off or covering them up, so it’s nice to see something more thoughtful.

I’m annoyed that the fit of the shirt is bad at the top, but that’s because I have narrow shoulders and a broad ribcage, so often have to compromise with fitting. I’ll keep it anyway because I want to recreate the cut of the bottom in a lightweight midnight blue cotton I have, which will waft beautifully.

I’m intrigued by Jil Sander now, I don’t think I’ve ever tried any on, except for a pair of shoes. I wonder how everyone here rates it? Looking at the range on the website it all looks nice but not especially interesting, but I wonder if that’s because it’s like the shirt where once you put it on you discover special details in the cut. How is the quality?

Yes, an organza pressing cloth saves a lot but I do consider that a sewing tool rather than a standard household tool.

Ah, Jil Sander is a long and complicated history. Her namesake brand and her parted ways a long time ago and it was with a lot of conflict, thinks she came back and then left in a huff again but she does approve of the current design duo there and I think she also approved of when Raf Simons was there but was vocally disapproving of others. I do like a lot of the current things the brand makes but they're not that suited to my lifestyle and the casual things that do look suitable are sometimes so ridiculously expensive I'm a bit lost, there doesn't seem to be much of a price difference between those and more one off special items.

She's very demanding though, with little tolerance for compromise which is generally a good quality for the end product but difficult to deal with it in the process. In her heydey there was a lot of negging of her in the way there wasn't for her contemporaries like Helmut Lang and Calvin Klein, she was essentially accused of turning women lesbian in her clothes as they were sexless where her male contemporaries were minimalist geniuses

I think she was very instrumental in looking at silhouette differently, working around the body instead of pushing an ideal without being a drapey cliché. Cos would never have existed without her, that's for sure, their design principles are directly lifted from her.

I can never tell if she's an expert pattern cutter or that she's able to expertly spot those and get them to do what she wants, I suspect it's a bit of both but they're an interesting study of patterning.

Ooh checked back into the thread to see a mini version of my dress! Thank you @botemp.
I’m past the stage of toiling and have now cut into the cloth, still undecided about the side buttons depends how confident I feel.
I think I have worked out the shoulder and back, it sits very nicely at the moment.

Well, I'm wearing a (second hand) Jaegar jumper today. It is very lovely, olive, merino wool, v-neck. It's a very good quality basic, but to stop it being too school uniform I wear it with either a bra, or like today, a uniqlo cami underneath, which makes it just fitted enough and I've paired it with toast assymmetric, fold-over trousers. I associate Jaegar with my mum's formal wear, very classic style.

Very interesting history about Jil Sander, bo.

Exciting, luggage, yes the shoulder and back bit was quite simple once I saw it in 3D but I was stuck on it in 2D. I can find plenty of resources on how to draft something but very little explain the method, I think this must be something that's better explained in face to face teaching. I think my skirt came out much too voluminous but it looked very cutesy, I'm curious to see how yours turns out.

I've now started experimenting with draping on the mini mannequin (she really needs a name) and I've predictably turned into a drapey cliché, I was going for something casual FFS 🤦

Yeah, Jil Sander is an interesting one, but moreso from how independent designers all got bought up and then had to interact with commercial interests. It's why the Belgian designers stood out for so long, they staunchly remained independent labels, only recently have they sold off parts or gone into partnerships and that probably has more to do with their ages and wanting to give their business and personnel the ability to carry on without them.