How much do I owe his kids?

[hilfehilfehilfe]

I am 26. My partner is 32. He earns more than I do but not loads. We have been together since summer 2019. Was not the OW. He has 3 kids from his marriage and they are 5, 7 and 8. I met them Dec 20. I love him a lot but I am starting to feel trapped and unhappy and worried that this is just how my life is going to be forever now. DP is great, thoughtful, supportive and absolutely adores me.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce. They never communicate so they would have to be very serious for DP to even have heard of his existence. He has done very little research about divorce and is overall just concerned about not being able to afford it. I am unhappy and ashamed of this and have told him so.

He has a large amount of debt (~£15k) that he is paying off in the agreed installments. He has done no research or work to look into paying this off faster.

He doesn't parent as I would want to. I do not want children so this is not as big an issue as it might be. I think he wants a blended family with me taking on more of a step mum role. I feel they have an amazing mum already and him, they do not need a third parent and I am just a nice, safe adult they know well. He resents my attitude on this.

I own and pay for our house entirely by myself. His contribution is he buys 2/3s(ish) of our groceries as he is meant to be clearing his debt. He is currently in a good financial position (i.e. not going into his overdraft each month and living within his paycheque but not able to save etc.). We moved in together into this house May 21. I resent that I bought this house and pay for it alone in order to protect myself in the event of the relationship not working out - but now it isn't really working for me I don't feel like I can ask him to move out as it would completely uproot his life and the childrens'.

I feel like I went from an individual person to a homeowner, breadwinner, provider and stepmum in the space of a few months. I don't think I want to break up but I do want to go back to being just an individual person in with my own space. I just don't know what I owe his children - their friends are on this street, their bedrooms are here. They love me, they love our life here and they are settled and very happy. I feel horribly guilty to even have wobbles about my relationship with their dad. I feel horrible about turfing DP out too and think it would damage our relationship perhaps fatally but I just feel like I'm suffocating and I need the situation to change. How do I do the right thing by the kids - can I say it's just him that moves out, and he can still have them here during his contact time?

Please help. What's fair of me to do. I don't want to hurt anyone but I can't remember the last time I was happy.

@hilfehilfehilfe I’ve been where you are. In a relationship with someone whom you love deeply. Very much unheard, they’re pretty myopic in their views and it takes you pretty much getting to the point of ‘I can’t do this anymore’ for them to finally break out of their navel gazer mode to focus on you and say they things you needed to hear.

Here’s my tuppence worth/ advice.

1. these cycles are exhausting and IME real change (deep seated change) takes time to happen. The person really has to want to do it. And radical change very rarely happens whilst that person is getting their fundamental needs met. For me, when I went through this cycle, change would happen for a period of time (I.e he would know what to say/ do) but at some point the behaviours re-emerged.
2. Divorce is a hard process: emotionally, mentally and financially. For most people. What he is about to go through will be very very hard. You also risk the fact that he has started this because of you, so if something goes wrong (she starts messing with children’s contact, their relationship gets acrimonious), you risk him blaming you.
3. It is very hard to not be a role of SM if all and everything contact happens in your house. Period. If when they’re not with their mum, they’re with you - I don’t see a way (without you basically continually saying no), that you can be just a friend. It’s three young children, that’s not how it works. And in the nicest possible way: it’s very naive of you to think this is how it is going to work.

For me? And my personal experience? I tried as you have. I listened to the words coming out of his mouth and allowed them status quo to continue. No deep change happened and it wasn’t going to happen, I was part of the problem and by not asserting boundaries, enabled my partners behaviour.

In the end I broke it off. A hard break. For about 9 months. Told him to go away and get some therapy and sort himself out and to stop putting his personal baggage at my door. Likewise I also entered therapy to figure out how I had let my boundaries go in the name of ‘love’ and what it was I had to do moving forward to ensure that my needs got met, and not allowing someone else to dominate me with theirs in the name of ‘love.’

We are back together. We continue to live apart and his contact with his children continues at his house, not mine. I have absolutely no plans to ever live with him, I have no plans to ever be in anyway hands on with his children. I see them from time to time and (as you hope), we have a lovely time and I am simply another trusted adult they have a connection with. Like an aunt. Nothing more.

If he has personal issues with his exwife (court issues that continue to arise), he deals with those in his house/ his space. I don’t want my house full of legal documents and him bringing his stress to my door repeatedly. (And your partner will have a lot of stress through the divorce process).

I’ve put in firm boundaries of what I am prepared to take on and not take on. If it gets too much I have my peaceful home to go to and close the door on the world. It’s heaven.

If my partner one day says the current set up doesn’t work for him? Fine by me. But I won’t lower my boundaries and what is in place anytime soon.

I am happy. My relationship is the best it’s ever been. Our time together is focussed on us. It’s drama free. And if he tries to pull old behaviours, I pull them to a halt and remove myself.

The change would not have been possible if he had been living with me. Because there was nothing forcing him to change.

When I allowed him to stay, that was on me and I enabled what was happening.

Keep an eye on this. For your sake I hope your experience is different to mine. But I doubt it will be.

I realise this is frustrating to read and not what you were hoping would happen, and you believe that I am going to continue to make what appears to be a really obvious mistake and ignore your advice. This really isn't the case - if he hadn't taken concrete, actual action and changed his entire attitude the relationship wouldn't have continued. Without the thread and your replies it would have continued for a long, long time and nothing would have changed.

The words of a skilled, manipulative user and the words of someone who got a lot of things wrong and wants to change are the same words at this point. The words are nice and certainly what I wanted to hear, but what I realised through the thread is that I cannot continue the relationship without serious, significant change in our dynamic.
In my mind, his actions from this point will tell me which of these two things he is. If he is using me with no intent to change, I'll end things knowing that I gave him the chance to prove himself and that I did everything I could.

I hope you can understand. Thank you as always for your replies and support.

because it could be easy or it could be hugely messy and ugly and upsetting and expensive

If it's ugly and highly confrontational consider than he might be the common factor, given the way he has spoken to you in the past and his uncompromising nature.

His wife and mum of 3 small children deserves a decent settlement as her life will be a real struggle. Trying to work and childcare is so challenging and will be more many more years.

How he approaches the divorce and settlement to her will be a test of his character and how he will treat you in future.

I wish you good luck. You have youth on your side but if he isn't making you happy in bail...I wish I had been told this. There is NOTHING keeping you there and you don't owe him anything. He was a stranger to you 3 years ago. This relationship still has enormous upside for him.

@HilifesProudMama

Hi All,

Thank you for your continued interest in @hilfehilfehilfe. I have been silently reading and following but I am going to butt in again.

I am not sure how many have been the OP in a post like this but I have watched many, many threads over the years , and it can be overwhelming to read an onslaught of 'LTB' when you are OP, particularly at a time when you are feeling vulnerable already. Obviously, there is much information that is not shared by OP either intentionally or unintentionally, and @hilfehilfehilfe is no different.

Some questions have stimulated a response from her, but sometimes she has chosen to keep some information private and I feel that should be respected. She has her reasons to avoid revealing some information and that should be enough. Yes, she has started a thread asking for opinions but if she chooses not to reveal information about herself and DP on a public forum then that is her choice - if other posters then choose not to comment or to leave the thread that is a consequence she will face. @hilfehilfehilfeand I have discussed the responses and questions posed here, and I am sure she has discussed this with friends also, and has given them due consideration. MN is generally a good sounding board but I wouldn't want @hilfehilfehilfeto feel bullied into sharing information that she does not wish to share, because some posters feel they deserve a response.

No one is bullying the OP into revealing why this man left / was kicked out of his family with 3 very young children and why his wife doesn’t talk to him but it would be prudent for her to reflect on that because that is likely the elephant in the room. It’s likely something v unsavoury which the OP is hoping is fixed and will be different this time with her.

However someone who describes their v young children (and from the timescales in the posts looks like he left / had issues with before the youngest was even born) and who he now only sees as EOW as “a burden” (which he then expects the OP to share) is really not a good person at their core. This alongside his identified “lack lustre” parenting sounds like someone with v different values to the OP.

@hilfehilfehilfe in the nicest possible way, it doesn’t frustrate me in the slightest and I have no expectation of what it is you should do. Ultimately this is your life, your choices and you will live with the output of those choices - good or bad. Just as every one of us does.

What you have is people sharing their experience and stories. Those experiences and those stories do not mean that any of us can predict how this will turn out. We can surmise but that’s about it.

It’s your life, do as you wish. But if you ask a bunch of strangers what you should do, expect them to have opinions. And ask questions. That’s why it’s a forum.

We may think you're nuts to literally roll over after the things he has said to you (I mean what makes a parent say he’ll move away and not see his kids if you break up with him). But if he’s said things that make that ok, that’s your call.

Wish you the best of luck

This guy isn't looking for a blended family. That's when you both have kids and you're looking to merge both households. This joker is just looking for someone to delegate his responsibilities to so he doesn't have to do it. If you let them all stay much longer you'll really regret it in the long run. You don't owe any of them anything. S for not wanting children yourself, neither did I at your age, not till I was about 35. Don't saddle yourself with this guy and his family, give yourself more options for your future and enjoy this time while you're young

Hi everyone.

I just wanted to update those of you who spent time on the thread and let you know the relationship has ended. It was absolutely horrible and heartbreaking and toxic on both our parts and had been disintegrating steadily and later rapidly since around the time I started the thread. I definitely handled it very very badly and some of the things he said were pretty awful. Apparently I never loved him and have just been using him for something to do. His new counsellor told him it sounds like I've been using and abusing him. He has now left the house.

I'll keep it brief as ex-DP is aware of the thread and may check back. Thank you to everyone who contributed to the thread - while this has been really hard I am excited and happy to be the master of my destiny again.

Firstly
Secondly what professional RL support are you getting
Third. He’s projecting, what he says to you is what he’s doing. This isn’t you.
Fourth. About a week after I posted on your thread that was I was happy, my exp upped the ante. Was vile to me at a special dinner and started to attack me because I had held firm (so firm) on two specific boundaries. So the promises, 9 months break, therapy. Had all been for nothing. If you give a situation time and space, the truth always unmasks itself.

The person you are seeing now in him? This is the real him.

Oh and finally? You’re being controlled if your posting is limited by the fact that you think your exp will be reading it. Why does it matter?

Yuk, every time he's having sex with you he's committing adultery. His wife could name you in divorce papers! Do you want that on official documents?

He's a married man with DC's. He needs to sort his life out before he gets into any new relationship.

Have you ever spoken to his wife? Her take on why they split would be interesting.

He is using you and will expect you to do all the Wifework with regards to him and his DC's.

Please don't ruin your life with this man.

Apparently I never loved him and have just been using him for something to do. His new counsellor told him it sounds like I've been using and abusing him.

Did they really? Sounds classic DARVO to me, as in he was the one using you for something to do, and somewhere to live, and to pay off his debts, and to look after his children...

If you were my dd I'd tell you to run a mile whilst your still young.

I know from experience it's horrible when a relationship ends, even when it was abusive. I am really pleased to hear you've escaped this relationship. It might not feel it now, but soon you'll look back and feel massively relieved that you don't have to deal with him ever again.

You don't sound abusive or a user at all from your posts, but he definitely does.

I think he's lying re the counselor. He has form for gaslighting you and is just trying to stick the knife in because he can't leech off you anymore.

My advice is to block him now he's moved out. Nothing constructive will come from further conversation with him.

He sounded awful OP, your life will be better without him.

If you look at things objectively he:

• moved into your home without divorcing his wife
• contributed less financially and refused to proactively address his debt
• wanted you to play a more active role in looking after his children (so he didn’t have to)
• told you that if you separated he’d move far away and therefore not see his children

He wasn’t/isn’t a good man

I remember reading your first posts, well done it must have been difficult but it definitely sounds like you made the right choice xx

@hilfehilfehilfe

Hi everyone.

I just wanted to update those of you who spent time on the thread and let you know the relationship has ended. It was absolutely horrible and heartbreaking and toxic on both our parts and had been disintegrating steadily and later rapidly since around the time I started the thread. I definitely handled it very very badly and some of the things he said were pretty awful. Apparently I never loved him and have just been using him for something to do. His new counsellor told him it sounds like I've been using and abusing him. He has now left the house.

I'll keep it brief as ex-DP is aware of the thread and may check back. Thank you to everyone who contributed to the thread - while this has been really hard I am excited and happy to be the master of my destiny again.

His counsellor listens to him and gets one one sided view Go see your own counsellor Good luck with your new life This was never going to work

@hilfehilfehilfe

Hi everyone.

I just wanted to update those of you who spent time on the thread and let you know the relationship has ended. It was absolutely horrible and heartbreaking and toxic on both our parts and had been disintegrating steadily and later rapidly since around the time I started the thread. I definitely handled it very very badly and some of the things he said were pretty awful. Apparently I never loved him and have just been using him for something to do. His new counsellor told him it sounds like I've been using and abusing him. He has now left the house.

I'll keep it brief as ex-DP is aware of the thread and may check back. Thank you to everyone who contributed to the thread - while this has been really hard I am excited and happy to be the master of my destiny again.

This is one of those threads that suck in my mind long after you were gone op.

I know this wasn't the outcome you wanted but true to your previous post you gave it a shot and it didn't pan out.

Gentle reminder that your ex can tell his therapist anything he wants and can completely skate over anything that paint him in bad light or just not tell you honestly what the therapist has said.

I doubt actually he's seen a therapist due to the nature of this bloke and everything you have posted. The fact he's checking this thread is testament to that.

If your reading this OPs ex - you are absolutely in need of therapy but sadly I doubt you can take accountability for your issues without partly blaming op or someone else which consistent therapy would force you to do. Seems like OP has had you put a lot of stuff at her door as "responsibility" for this relationship failing but that because op is fairly young, she will learn. But us ones that have been around the block we see you for who you are.

This is a really positive outcome for you OP. I remembered your thread from before. Although you feel sad now it will very soon be nothing but relief and joy!

Enjoy the peace and relaxation, having your house to yourself and no kids being dumped on you! Onwards and upwards!

Sounds like you have made the right decision, as everyone else has said you are in your 20's with your shit together career, house, never married, no children, financially independent, find someone at the same life stage as yourself and that will be half the happiness right there not having to deal with someone else's baggage or poor financial decisions.

👏👏👏👏 congratulations OP

@hilfehilfehilfe Well done for leaving! Your ex was abusive and emotionally manipulative. He just wanted free accommodation and free childcare and thought he could control a very young woman. How dare he say it’s your fault if he has to move away from his dc? That’s his choice. Please never ever let him back into your life. Find someone who respects you and doesn’t have loads of baggage!

Well done OP. If you need to come back to you can always change your name if this will help.

Good luck for your future. X

Thank goodness you finally got rid of him. He was using and abusing you and I wouldn’t believe anything that came out of his mouth.

Christ sounds like my SIL set up

GET OUT , run , leave him !

Sorry no other choice IMO

If he is reading this then at least he knows that it's only him that thinks you have been the one using.

What the actual fuck would you use him for?
What does he think you got out of it?
What planet are you on dude??

Congratulations OP. Bullet dodged.