How much do I owe his kids?

[hilfehilfehilfe]

I am 26. My partner is 32. He earns more than I do but not loads. We have been together since summer 2019. Was not the OW. He has 3 kids from his marriage and they are 5, 7 and 8. I met them Dec 20. I love him a lot but I am starting to feel trapped and unhappy and worried that this is just how my life is going to be forever now. DP is great, thoughtful, supportive and absolutely adores me.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce. They never communicate so they would have to be very serious for DP to even have heard of his existence. He has done very little research about divorce and is overall just concerned about not being able to afford it. I am unhappy and ashamed of this and have told him so.

He has a large amount of debt (~£15k) that he is paying off in the agreed installments. He has done no research or work to look into paying this off faster.

He doesn't parent as I would want to. I do not want children so this is not as big an issue as it might be. I think he wants a blended family with me taking on more of a step mum role. I feel they have an amazing mum already and him, they do not need a third parent and I am just a nice, safe adult they know well. He resents my attitude on this.

I own and pay for our house entirely by myself. His contribution is he buys 2/3s(ish) of our groceries as he is meant to be clearing his debt. He is currently in a good financial position (i.e. not going into his overdraft each month and living within his paycheque but not able to save etc.). We moved in together into this house May 21. I resent that I bought this house and pay for it alone in order to protect myself in the event of the relationship not working out - but now it isn't really working for me I don't feel like I can ask him to move out as it would completely uproot his life and the childrens'.

I feel like I went from an individual person to a homeowner, breadwinner, provider and stepmum in the space of a few months. I don't think I want to break up but I do want to go back to being just an individual person in with my own space. I just don't know what I owe his children - their friends are on this street, their bedrooms are here. They love me, they love our life here and they are settled and very happy. I feel horribly guilty to even have wobbles about my relationship with their dad. I feel horrible about turfing DP out too and think it would damage our relationship perhaps fatally but I just feel like I'm suffocating and I need the situation to change. How do I do the right thing by the kids - can I say it's just him that moves out, and he can still have them here during his contact time?

Please help. What's fair of me to do. I don't want to hurt anyone but I can't remember the last time I was happy.

He said "if I move out I ain't coming back"

Wow. It's hard to think of a clearer way of saying "I'm only here because you're providing me with a free house".

He also says that I knew he was married when we got together (true) and that I knew what I was getting into.

Also, this is total bullshit. He didn't turn up and say "I'm married and I wont ever divorce her, I'll also give her all my money forever so you'll be supporting me for free as essentially the OW, you're fine with that, right?"

So the good times can be true as they are just that, a single still photo in time, a perspective as it were, those photos only show a very brief picture of what's going on and won't show everything. Things will be out of shot and view mostly on purpose. One of the parties had a lot of incentives to make sure it was the best of times, keep certain things hidden and to say exactly what you wanted to hear.

... Wow ... That's one of the most true things I've ever seen on Mumsnet. Read this and read it again op.

He just sat there, looking straight past me and talking like he hated me while I bawled my eyes out. He just wanted to know how it ends

Read what you've written again, OP. I completely get what you wanted, but now he knows his time's almost up the mask slips and he can't even be bothered to pretend; all that matters is how it affects him and what his next self-serving move needs to be

As legoriakelne wisely suggested in her excellent post, there really isn't anything left to fight for, and in dragging this out you may be only damaging yourself. He's been using you, you know deep down he's been using you, and the kindest thing to do for yourself is to bring this to a close

He said "if I move out I ain't coming back"

Well that's pretty horrible. So rather than have a reasonable discussion, he's telling you I'm staying with an 'or else' threat. Don't question me, don't expect anything. When people show you what they are....believe them. OP most relationship are bunnies and roses for the first few months/years. The longhaul is the real test. The best of relationships have very difficult times. You've only just started the long haul and already he's being horrible (sorry). He's sapping your energy, money and happiness. You should be feeling over the moon about him at this stage. You should be feeling over the moon about him.

You're 26, you're solvent with your own house, you sound like an all-round lovely person and a real catch, do you seriously want this hassle at this stage? You can do so much better.

Grim. How can you continue a relationship with someone who thinks so little of you?
How can you kiss him, have sex with him when he treats you like shit?
You’re so young. Get out now.

I hate to say this but can we for once not shame a young girl who is by all accounts been on the receiving end of emotional abuse and gaslighting.

She's feeling low enough as it is. Shall we not kick her so hard when she's down. Come on.

Don't be a fool like me. I wasted ten years on a man who wouldn't divorce until the time was right. After the ten years he was still married and we split up. He wasn't free to marry until his wife died about ten years later.

Working out what you want your future to look like is going to take time. So please don't feel that you're a failure because you're sad or afraid, or just don't feel up to kicking him out this week or next week. Going on what I've read, this doesn't sound like a relationship which is going to make you happy long-term, but it's fine to take a bit of time to get to the sticking-point and decide what is right for you .

But you don't owe it to him to stay in a relationship because it's 'fair' or because apparently you agreed to certain things in the past. 'This relationship isn't working for me at the moment' is a perfectly valid reason to end it - you really don't need any further justification than that. It's not a contract or a business deal.

So please don't worry about 'winning' any arguments with him. You don't need to win the argument to end your relationship, if that's what you decide to do. You simply need to tell him that it's not working for you and it's over. He can't argue with that.

Op, please remember that you don't need his permission to split. If you have come to the end of the road, that is that. Enlist your lovely family to help get him our irl, once your event is over. Pp talked about emotionally disconnecting from him in your head and start dealing with the truth of your relationship and what your boyfriend actually Does and know what he says. Your confusion is because he talks a good game but when it comes to actions, you are left chasing the ball into the long grass. I wish you only knew what we can see as clear as day - he doesn't deserve you and you deserve so much more than him.

I hate to say this but can we for once not shame a young girl who is by all accounts been on the receiving end of emotional abuse and gaslighting.

She's a woman. Don't infantilise her.

And who is giving her a kicking?

@Iwantcauliflowercheese

Don't be a fool like me. I wasted ten years on a man who wouldn't divorce until the time was right. After the ten years he was still married and we split up. He wasn't free to marry until his wife died about ten years later.

And if you were still with him he would have dumped you.

I'm pleased that you are seeing more clearly as time goes on.
I think it's good that you realise this now rather than after you are pregnant and things get much harder to untangle.
From an outsider's point of view, you've had a lucky escape - you have everything going for you like a career, age, financial security while he is a nasty cocklodger who is showing his true colours now that you're threatening to end being his meal ticket.
Sometimes it's the most painful experiences that teach us the most about life and ourselves which is what we need to prepare us for future happiness.
The person you met at the start is him-on-his-best-behaviour. The behaviour that you're seeing now is the true him. If you have problems recalling what was said in arguments you might want to email yourself some reminders so you can read them when you feel weak and want to cave into him. There are so many red flags with his behaviour that you could make bunting with them.
The biggest red flag is that he doesn't respect your opinion. He wants you to do what he wants because only his convenience and happiness matters to him. Your opinion matters. You are allowed to have a different opinion to him. If he was a decent loving man he'd listen, consider if he could be wrong (we all are sometimes) and see if there's a compromise or solution. You are allowed to change your mind about stuff. Him being married might not have been a problem when dating but it is a problem now and he shouldn't be gaslighting you.
The breakup will be sad but you've become a wiser woman who will look out for red flags in future so that you don't make the same mistake again.

You are allowed to break up with someone for any reason.

@EmeraldRaine I'm assuming you read my comment, so I'm assuming you can read the one below it which is as what I responding to but I will make it simple for you, I was responding to this

"Grim. How can you continue a relationship with someone who thinks so little of you?
How can you kiss him, have sex with him when he treats you like shit?"

Only on MN could you get someone picking at your wording because I dared to say lets shame the op because she's literally suffered enough abuse at the hand of her DP.

Hi OP,

I've read your thread and my advice is as follows.

People talk a lot about what makes a good relationship.

They use words like love, respect and empathy. They talk about common goals and aspirations.

I don't think these things are wrong but I actually think a good relationship boils down to something far more fundamental. Fairness.

For a couple to be truly happy, both need to feel that they are making an equal contribution to the relationship.

By think I don't mean that every aspect needs to identical eg the same financial input or splitting every household chore 50/50.

Rather that the balance overall is fair in that their contributions are equally effective in reinforcing the value of the other person.

Your relationship is fundamentally unbalanced in that respect. Your side of the balance scale is fully loaded whilst his is in the air weighted by nothing but future insubstantial promises.

Your DP is happy to be the beneficiary of the very significant boons you bring to this relationship whilst investing very little in return.

His debt, refusal to divorce, but most importantly, unwillingness to acknowledge your (imho perfectly reasonable) views on this and "contribute" to the relationship by acknowledging their validity is just another way of him avoiding putting weight on his side of the scale.

It's understandable you feel sad and even resentful about this. You have every right to.

The question is what are you going to do about it?

You're in a relationship where he ought to be bloody desperate to marry you - as your mum said you are the "catch" here. So why won't he?

Put simply he doesn't value you as much as you value him. He's unwilling to add weight to his input into the relationship because he doesn't think you deserve it. He'd rather reserve that input for himself and his relationship with his ex.

This relationship is never going to be fair. You're always going to be the one investing more in it.

So stop. You're young. Move on. Find someone who deserves you.

Either I suck up the compromises I have to make to be with him or I don't

This is a truism. He has it made, living with you for the cost of a few groceries and a bit of sweet talk to turn your head.

He will not change. It doesn't matter what you negotiate, he has already shown you his terms. No divorce, no transparency over the rate at which he is paying down his debt. No contribution to accommodation and bills. DSC.

If you want to be with him, you have to continue providing free accommodation, not make any fuss about him being married to someone else, not demand insight into his financial situation. You can expect no commitments and no real love.

You are young, you have your whole life ahead of you? Why are you carrying this burden?

That fog of confusion is caused by him on purpose to distract him. Why let him do this to you. Hope your mother can help you get rid of him.

He just sat there, looking straight past me and talking like he hated me while I bawled my eyes out.

Now you have seen the real him. Not the nice face he showed you when he was looking for a somewhere for him and his DC to live for free.

He could not be clearer, saying that you have to provide all this in return for hims company. If he leaves he is not coming back.

Finally (sic) something to be grateful for.

Oh dear. I hope you're kicking his scrounging arse out of your house. If he respected you at all he would be trying to at least meet you halfway, whereas he's the one delivering the ultimatums as if he holds all the power. He really doesn't - he needs you much more than you need him.

Ah darling I can hear your anguish xxx

My honest 46yr old advice is this. 'If it's a bad job, best to make an end of it.'

I dont know what your life stuff is, but what sort of time are you going to have if you dont break this off now? It's going nowhere. It's not going to go anywhere. Best to make an end of it.

And I'd say to him, you are right, you dont want to upset your wife or ruin your kids life, we had better end it. I want what you cant give.

To you my love I say this. This man is not good enough for you. The way he is responding now to your points, his past behaviour and choices. He is not your equal. And look at you trying to pull him up by his bootstraps. And hes just not that man is he.

Break it off. Have an overnight bag packed and go away somewhere, your mums. If it's not going to work, don't drag it out. And have a good think, about your self worth and how much tweaking you do for a man. Either the shoe fits or it doesn't. Have the courage to see honestly x and break it off x

He just sat there, looking straight past me and talking like he hated me while I bawled my eyes out.

@hilfehilfehilfe

When someone shows you who they are, believe them. He has very clearly shown you exactly who he is, and it is NOT a pretty picture.

I know it's scary, I know it's hard. But you can break free. Rely on your lovely mum, the rest of your family and your friends. Lean on them. Let them support you through this. When you come out the other end of the dark tunnel you're currently in, the light and lightness you will feel will be inspiring. A whole new 'you' with new and wonderful possibilities. It's there for the taking.

I think lots of things have conspired against you OP.

He needed to have been much clearer with himself and you about his thinking around the divorce process and timings and his concerns for impact on the children. In that way he should not have started making promises and plans. He was not free to do so.

Without COVID you probably wouldn’t have taken such a drastic step as to move him in, lock, stock and children.

He could maybe usefully reflect on this. ‘The if I go I’m not coming back’ is not acknowledging the complications of NOW.

You seem to be seeking permission or justification, an argument you can make and not be shot down, to end the relationship.

Actually ‘because I want to ‘ and ‘I am not happy’ with no explanation at all are a good enough reason.

‘

@legoriakelne, a wonderful post.

Hi everyone.

So ... We've had a good day today. Managed to talk very briefly but more productively about how I felt overwhelmed and about how (in my view at least) him moving out wouldn't necessarily mean the end of the relationship. I told him I'm not cut out to be a stepmum, that's not what I want for myself and I wouldn't be able to help putting the children first to my own detriment even if I wanted to - I just don't have it in me to put myself above their needs. It's just not the right thing to do. In response he said that they come as a package deal, so I just have to accept it. And that as a team, I should help him share this 'burden'. Don't think it occurs to him that I don't actually have to share the 'burden' or in fact stay with him at all. But that just makes me feel worse for seriously considering blindsiding him and ruining his life and sending the kids back to the work accommodation etc. I mentioned up thread.

That said, when we spoke yesterday he told me that if I ended things he would transfer to the opposite end of the country and arrange to see the children in the holidays, as he is only in this part of the country to be with me.

This is so hard. On days like today I can ignore the issues I have and we feel overall pretty happy, which adds to my feeling of creating a problem out of nothing and that we are good. That said, in the back of my mind I can very clearly see the compromised life I would likely lead if the children continue to stay in my life - I would spend a lot of time and energy and emotional labour trying to (and ultimately failing, because I can't undo) his lackluster parenting. I know his parenting style is going to lead, at best, to some angry, volatile, shouty teenagers. I can also feel myself trying to get closer to him emotionally to make up for the pain I caused him and make us good again, which I know is an unhealthy response. I've asked him to come up with suggestions of things we could do to help with the concerns I have and I've raised while I do [life thing]. This, in addition to the small tasks I've asked him to do, I'm hoping will tell me what he actually wants and who he is outside the heat of the moment.

I know not what you wanted to hear. But I'm still reading and learning and trying. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the thread.

He's using his children as a weapon to make you fall back in line by threatening to only see them in the holidays if you break up with him. He's making you responsible for his contact schedule which in reality is nothing to do with you at all.