Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science

[truthwithin]

I have read some threads recently that mock SMs for suggesting their Dsds are miniwives.

Whilst some of these threads are typed in a moment of despair or anger and may come across as jealous or hateful, living with it is both detrimental to child and partner.

I only have experience of father / daughter spousification and, although this has been managed over the years, still causes tension and hostility every now and again.

Backstory: DP left Dsd18 at the age of 4 and in another country at to be with ExW, ( yes I know it's shitty & have told DP so myself).

DP left ExW when Dsd10 was 4, (reoccurring theme, I know), and the guilt of his first breakup has followed him. DP has said he regrets leaving Dsd18, although they are building a relationship now.

From the age of 4 till now DSD10 gets told she is the most important little lady in his life. I don't particularly like that as DP does have an older female child.

DP had 4 yrs of non-stable relationships, non of whom were introduced to Dsd10 and effectively they existed as a single unit. For part of this time DSD10 also lived full time with DP.

DP has deferred to Dsd10:

What car he drives. Expensive convertible, soon changed for something more practical.

Our first home. I didn't realise DP had already viewed it with DSD10 and found it acceptable.

Family pet, again a stealth viewing.

Things have got better over the years but DP does occasionally defer adult decisions to Dsd10, instead of discussing as a family or as adult choices.

DSD10 does sometimes see me as a rival for DPs affection, even though it is a totally different type of love. ie: DP cannot touch or be near me when Dsd10 is here. DSD10 will actually kiss DP and then check to see if I'm looking and smirk.

Dsd10 will want to check any items we are buying, sofa, car etc. are Ok.

DSD10 must be sat next to DP, holding his hand & being spoon fed at any function that requires eating. Any other female s that approach are given lasers, including DPs own mother!

Tbh, I just leave them to it now as DP is oblivious & I enjoy the peace & quiet.

It has taken me some time to realise that DSD10 is probably jealous of the affection between myself & DP and I am better off leaving them to their own relationship, however I know many SMs will notice a significant change in their DPs behavior towards them when Dsc are around.

Now it is a place where negative opinions of stepchildren are challenged.

What is your point?
Shouldn't negative opinions against children be challenged?
I personally believe they should be. It is not healthy and it does not help the situation. It makes it worse.

I agree SP need somewhere to vent and that is absolutely fine. There have been times mine drove me insane and having somewhere to let off that steam is great.
However if a poster is holding the child solely responsible and continues to spout hate/blame towards a child isn't it better that somebody says 'whoa this is a child your talking about.' and encouraging the OP to look past the hate/venting and try and see a positive way through?

What would it solve if all posters said 'yep you are correct SDC's are vile and ruin marriages/families/lives. They are to blame for everything. Nothing.

Post posters come on here to vent but also advice. Hard thing to give when an OP won't listen or only wants to demonise a child.

Aside from anything else, which everyone else seems to have covered most eloquently, I'm going to pick you up on your thread title: "Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science"

If you think that this (frankly bizarre) idea is not a pseudo science, then it stands that you believe it to be "real" science. As in, a scientifically proven theory.

Without going to any (aka no) lengths to research the topic myself, if one single peer-reviewed paper exists which confirms the validity of the "spousification/miniwife" hypothesis, I will eat my metaphorical hat.

Which means that your theory is very much pseudo-science, I'm afraid.

Annie, there's another thread with a lot of information about it just a couple down.

Flossy - it is your own feeling that the term mini-wife in itself blames the child. Not everyone else's. I joke about my dsd and the mini wife behaviours now because it helps me. I wouldn't do it on here because some wise fool would start to tell me that I'm horrible and it's not her fault, which I already know.
I think first assume that other women you speak to are as informed/ intelligent as yourself and work back from there.

I did not change anything on my own. Many posters offered constructive advice.

I do not understand why you dislike a more positive approach to SPing and are waiting for the tide to turn.

Do you enjoy revelling in posters distress/hate?
Do you prefer it when children are demonised and blamed for the adults choices/decisions?

I think you can give good advice without doing the above or joining in with the child hating. In your eyes that makes me condescending.
I am in no way trying to change your opinion of me just trying to understand it.

Of course posters can vent, SPing can be frustrating and damn difficult however once the venting is over the OP is still in the same place. I see that a positive approach is more constructive than just blindly agreeing and sticking the child hating/blaming boot in.

I think you will find happy that I am not the only one who feels that way about MW.

Also I never assume anything in regards to peoples intelligence. I have made no reference to that anywhere on this thread or on these boards. I only answer in respect to what the OP writes.

I am not sure of the picture you are trying to paint of me happy but maybe you are making assumptions around my intelligence. Who knows.

Happy - a thread with a lot of information is not a peer-reviewed scientific publication. I am not looking for information on this subject, I am concerned with the OP's opinion of what constitutes something being "scientific".

Annie - that thread has a lot of links that are "proper" research.

Okay, I'll take your word for it. A link to the thread you're referring to might be helpful though.

need of course I am aware of that however if the adults behaviour is the cause of their behaviour where do you start to fix it (if you can) the child or the adult enabling it?

Some children no matter what a parent/parents try to do will not behave and seem intent on the destruction of family life/relationships. Parents come on the boards to vent and be angry which is fine but the anger will solve nothing and in fact eats up the parent and has an even more negative affect the parents life.
After the venting trying to support the OP to see the positives so that the hate/anger does not become all encompassing is a positive way to me. That's all I am trying to do.

I don't by in to the solidarity of hating the child as I don't believe that it is a good way to support the parent who is on the receiving end of the child's behaviour.

I am not saying it is a fail safe strategy. There is a poster who had a terrible thing happen in her family caused by a SDC. I truly admired her strength and the fact that she said she didn't hate them. I am not so sure I could not hate in those circumstance.

I take each thread as it comes and try to offer a reasoned response where possible.

I find the terms Mini Wife syndrome and spousification disgusting. Both imply culpability on behalf of the child, both names refer to a sexual adult relationship and the first is horribly misogynistic.

Parentification is the correct term. Parentification is something that is done to a child by an ineffectual adult. It is a role of responsibility that is put upon a child by a parent. It is not sexist or sexualised, it has no sexual connotations. So It disturbs me that some SMs on this board continually refer to what is happening in these terms. I think it indicative of their feelings of hostility and jealousy that some SMs here have for their DSDs.

Parentification is about right I think for what is being discussed here.

some children aren't completely innocent though

Their behaviours are just a survival mechanism though. How these children behave is a natural reaction to their circumstances and often age appropriate.

It's good to hear posters say that they won't use the term 'mini wife' any more. That will help focus on the actual problem, rather than the inappropriate labelling.

But wouldn't parentification suggest that the child had been given the role of a parent, i.e. in having and bringing up children? When the behaviour isn't about the child's status in relation to other siblings, but the child in relation to their dad (or mum)?

Genuinely here as to why it is materially better than spousification.

Genuinely confused

I think parentification sits better because spouification or MWS because it does not have the implication that there is any other spousal or wife like duty connected to it.

Personally I dislike all of the above however if giving it a name helps a person identify with it then parentification I suppose is better.

I think parentification sits better because spouification or MWS

The two are different.

Each is referred to in the DSM-IV Appendix in the GARF diagnosis, but the two dynamics are distinct and different - although often exist comorbidly.

This thread is bizarre - a bit like arguing that depression or other psychological condition doesn't exist because it offends people.

The child is given the role of parent. They have the adult/parent role forced upon them. They are expected to co-parent themselves, occasionally other siblings ("dad, little Jonny doesn't like cabbage) and the actual parent ("mum please take your medication"). This status change from child to parent is forced on the child by its parent. It is often unconscious, can be damaging and is always the actual parent's fault.

When rectifying Parentification, it is important that the child's work (yes work) is acknowledged and they are not blamed, but rather relieved of grown up behaviors that they were temporarily forced to assume.

Wakey I was giving my feelings on the differences I never said this was a documented or credited description.

I don't think this thread is bizarre I think it is quite interesting. However I do find some of your comparisons a bit left field.

Can I get some clarification on which term we're allowed to use to describe the same thing please?

I'd hate to damage or upset step children who may be reading these boards.

Who knows happy I don't like MWS yet it appears some do.

I don't think it is a good term to use across the board (I mean board as in general not MN boards).

I express my dislike of it when applied in a diagnosis sense simply because it is unhelpful and can be interpreted to include many things. I am also not sure of it validity so again don't agree with it to being applied in a knowledgably sense. That's just my thoughts and is not representative of anyone else on here.

However I get the feeling you are being obtuse with your posts so not really sure if you genuinely wanted to know.

I genuinely want to know. Because then we can cut through all the "will somebody think of the children!!" Shite and chat like adults about real life scenarios that affect us.

But yes my "I'd hate to upset any step children" post was sarcastic. Not obtuse, that's the wrong word.

I was applying it to your first posts not your last

Ok well the 'won't nobody think of the children' is a rubbish line to use any way so lets never use that one again

It isn't about never saying/using it again (too hard to police) it is about making sure it applies to the situation and not just saying it because it fits part of it.

The OP used it in her opening line but when she elaborated it became clear that DSD was not assuming the role of a mini wife but was instead playing off her fathers own behaviour.

I suppose if I was asked to apply it to a situation in my view my own DM's would 'fit' better.