Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science

[truthwithin]

I have read some threads recently that mock SMs for suggesting their Dsds are miniwives.

Whilst some of these threads are typed in a moment of despair or anger and may come across as jealous or hateful, living with it is both detrimental to child and partner.

I only have experience of father / daughter spousification and, although this has been managed over the years, still causes tension and hostility every now and again.

Backstory: DP left Dsd18 at the age of 4 and in another country at to be with ExW, ( yes I know it's shitty & have told DP so myself).

DP left ExW when Dsd10 was 4, (reoccurring theme, I know), and the guilt of his first breakup has followed him. DP has said he regrets leaving Dsd18, although they are building a relationship now.

From the age of 4 till now DSD10 gets told she is the most important little lady in his life. I don't particularly like that as DP does have an older female child.

DP had 4 yrs of non-stable relationships, non of whom were introduced to Dsd10 and effectively they existed as a single unit. For part of this time DSD10 also lived full time with DP.

DP has deferred to Dsd10:

What car he drives. Expensive convertible, soon changed for something more practical.

Our first home. I didn't realise DP had already viewed it with DSD10 and found it acceptable.

Family pet, again a stealth viewing.

Things have got better over the years but DP does occasionally defer adult decisions to Dsd10, instead of discussing as a family or as adult choices.

DSD10 does sometimes see me as a rival for DPs affection, even though it is a totally different type of love. ie: DP cannot touch or be near me when Dsd10 is here. DSD10 will actually kiss DP and then check to see if I'm looking and smirk.

Dsd10 will want to check any items we are buying, sofa, car etc. are Ok.

DSD10 must be sat next to DP, holding his hand & being spoon fed at any function that requires eating. Any other female s that approach are given lasers, including DPs own mother!

Tbh, I just leave them to it now as DP is oblivious & I enjoy the peace & quiet.

It has taken me some time to realise that DSD10 is probably jealous of the affection between myself & DP and I am better off leaving them to their own relationship, however I know many SMs will notice a significant change in their DPs behavior towards them when Dsc are around.

About stuff- we still have to parent properly though.

Since when was being spoon fed "wife-like" behaviour?

Do we have mini husbands or is it always the girls that get the blame?

Do we have mini husbands or is it always the girls that get the blame?

Quite.

truthwithin you sound utterly deluded. Reading this, I'm terribly sad for your DSD.

I have blamed DSD10 in anger on here & I think a lot of SMs post whilst angry or upset. This doesn't make us monsters, just human.

Which is of course understandable. However isn't it better if posters then attempt to get the OP to calm down and look at the bigger picture?

Personally I think 40 posts encouraging the OP to calm down, look at it differently and explore positive solutions is more helpful than 5 posts telling the OP that it is MWS and the child is manipulative and entirely at fault.

I am cautious of labelling children. In some circumstances labels are needed to ensure the child gets the proper help & support however I do not agree with the labels such as spousification/MWS being banded about on here.
For me it is about looking at the cause of the behaviour not merely giving it a made up name.

I think it's clear that whatever the cause, there are indeed some DSC who have the opportunity to make choices and have influence over a parents life in a way that is more akin to a partner or spouse. That's not the child's fault - but, none the less, it is the child's exercising of these opportunities that has the greatest impact on a new partner of the parent. The way the parent behaves towards the child does not have a direct impact in the stepparent; the way the child behaves towards the stepparent does.

Yes, of course it is facilitated/encouraged/welcomed by the parent, and that style of parenting has been identified as a form of emotional abuse. It is the parents fault, but the child's actions that are described by the term.

Problem is, unlike overt physical abuse, this abuse is hidden. It's often not seen by a new partner until they are established in the parent/child's life - by which time, there are emotional, and maybe financial attachments. That makes it far harder to LTB, even if s/he is emotionally abusing her/his DC by seeking an inappropriate level of emotional support and engagement from them.

Also, as has been seen on MN recently, it's far harder to justify LTB for this type of abuse than it would be for other types of abuse - friends, family and even strangers on the internet dismiss the gut feelings, which is often all there is.

I don't really see how people have interpreted that the OP is blaming the child. To me she is describing the daughters behaviour but has acknowledged that it is due to her DP's behaviour that she is like this. It is him that is treating her as, and allowing her to be a 'mini-wife'.

Anyway, OP, I can't see what you are doing with this idiot. LTB

rooty - why do you think she sounds deluded? I think she sounds quite undeluded. She recognises that this behaviour is the product of the father trying too hard to please his daughter and reassure her of her importance too him. She recognises that this has damaged DD. She says that she has made a lot of effort to speak to DP about the unhealthiness of this situation, and that this has resulted in some positive changes to his and his DD's relationship.

I think where I disagree with some other posters here is that OP (and other SMs in this position) is deserving of some sympathy as well as the child. This sympathy should not and does not mean child blaming. It means that this is probably a really difficult, annoying situation to live with and since you probably spend most of your life trying to shut off your own feelings and put the child first, you might think that one place you can acually be put first for once in terms of getting some support and speaking openly is a stepparenting board...

Agree with everything riverboat said.

riverboat1 for the 1st year I did put up and shut up. DSD10 effectively ran our household. I did a lot of venting on here but said nothing to DP. DSD10 had such an elevated status that to criticise or want to change the dynamic was met with hostility. Every contact was difficult & my own children were unhappy.

Things are different now that DP & myself are open and honest with each other. Of course there are still moments where I have to remove myself, but it is getting better.

I know a lot of DSD10 behavior is down to DP and also ExW.

eg: I found DSD10 sitting at the top of the stairs listening whilst I read Dd4 a bedtime story. DSD10 has never been read a story at bedtime. Something so simple that I found quite heartbreaking. Of course I invited her to come into Dd4s bed and we could read together. DSD10 refused and seemed almost embarrassed to be caught acting like a child, which of course she is!

DSD10 is so used to being treated as an adult by both DP and ExW that she has forgotten how to just have fun.

Unfortunately as Dsd10 has got older and some of this has gone unchecked, she has displayed some emotional unbalance. I am hoping that before she hits her teens we can address this as a family. DSD10 has come across to other family members and friends as sullen, unsociable and a little strange. Through no fault if her own, but not something I would want her to be as she matures.

river yes I agree in some ways the OP is clear eyed. But then this: DSD10 must be sat next to DP, holding his hand & being spoon fed at any function that requires eating. Any other female s that approach are given lasers, including DPs own mother! Tbh, I just leave them to it now as DP is oblivious & I enjoy the peace & quiet.

And it is utterly, utterly inappropriate to label a child in this way. Mini-wife imports, as others have said, ideas about participation and consent that are simply not appropriate for a child, and a focus on the child's behaviour that is indefensible. I would think anyone using this term, and tolerating this behaviour in their home, deluded.

I do think OP sounds like she deserves a lot of sympathy, for being in a really tricky position and (by the sound of it), for being married to a serial deserter of families who I doubt is a real prize at home.

However, by labelling the child a 'miniwife', she is putting the child into an adult arena of spouses and wives, and it does suggest that she really sees her dsd as a competitor rather than a vulnerable child trying to hold onto her dad's affection the only way she knows how.

riverboat I also agree that OP deserves support. What would you advise her to do about this situation that she finds herself in?

I think as your posts go on that you are trying to rectify past behaviour from all parties OP Which is for me the positive attitude to have.

It is not something you can do on your own and your DP will need to recognise his part in this and get on the same page as you.

It is difficult and frustrating to see the wrong family dynamics when you are on the outside but it does give you a better view of the situation and in some ways means you are better placed at changing it. However it can also mean you are not listened to and your thoughts are brushed under the carpet.

Talking to your DP and helping him to see that how he treats his DD is potentially damaging will not be easier but at least you are willing to do that for her.

rootypig this is a description of behaviour. Am I blaming Dsd10 - no.

DP has absolutely facilitated this behaviour. Strangely enough Dsd10, does flit between acting adult to babyish. It has been a case of slowly changing the dynamic as it can't be done overnight and would probably be damaging if it was.

I do get frustrated and do remove myself when the interaction between Dsd10 and DP reverts back to how it was. If I approached DP whilst felling this way, my point would not get across and we would not have the progress we have now.

DP and I have different thought processes. I am always looking ahead, DP tends to live in the moment.

He could do a simple parenting course OP. You could go together. They are not about specifically telling people how to parent but rather offer a fantastic insight into why children behave the way they do and how the adults who influence them can change the family dynamics completely.

It could be a very positive and helpful experience for you both, especially as she is about to enter puberty and will exhibit all the usual difficult behaviours and mood swings that accompany it.

Also, if you are ever planning of having children of your own with him, you could make sure that you are both of the same mindset with regards to house rules, boundaries and discipline, for example.

Strangely enough Dsd10, does flit between acting adult to babyish.

There is nothing strange about this at all.

this is a description of behaviour

Labelling both betrays (problematic) assumptions and shapes your thinking, it has huge emotional consequences. Until you talk predominantly about your partner's behaviour, your approach is deeply suspect.

I'm not going to LTB! A very easy and quick solution that doesn't help anyone.

As I said things are getting better.

Deverethemuzzler rootypig I'm sure this also happens with mothers / sons but I am addressing my situation and my experience.

Fair - I don't think the OP is asking for advice here, unless I mmisread. Plus she seems to be on the right track already.

I think sometimes it's fine to offer sympathy without suggesting practical advice. Happens all the time on other boards when people post about finding themselves in difficult/traumatic situations. Some of us aren't in a position to presume to offer advice on every issue, but still want to show support.

I have the greatest sympathy for the OP's situation and will offer support where I can however her use of the label MWS is not something I will ever agree with.

Or maybe OP just wants to talk about the situation and get other perspectives?

The OPs situation sounds hard, and no doubt she does deserve support as much as anybody else with relationship issues.

But starting a thread with miniwife in the title is not really the way to go about it.

OP, of course kids can be difficult/ awkward/ appalling. I know I was. But your DP is the only person in all of this with the power to effect meaningful change, so why not focus on him instead.

Maybe even give him a gimmicky label himself. DaftDaddy?

Stop demonising and projecting your anxieties onto a child.its dreadful
If your adult relationship with man is in trouble,fix it or walk away
But demonising a wee girl is deeply troubling

Fairenuff a great idea but I'm not sure how this would go down with DP

It has been baby steps so far, and any hint of suggesting his parenting style is at fault makes him extremely defensive. None of us got a manual when we had children and it has been a massive learning curve for us all.

DP does subscribe to the belief that if Dsd10 is happy and has everything she wants he is doing it right.

We have discussed the fact that he will not ever say 'no'. Something I believe is perfectly healthy for a child to hear but DP worries DSD10 will be upset at him for. Again this is being managed with baby steps, although I am aware Dsd10 is approaching her teens and that is a whole other trial in itself. I'm saying this as the mother of a 15 yr old....teens are bloody hard work!