Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science

[truthwithin]

I have read some threads recently that mock SMs for suggesting their Dsds are miniwives.

Whilst some of these threads are typed in a moment of despair or anger and may come across as jealous or hateful, living with it is both detrimental to child and partner.

I only have experience of father / daughter spousification and, although this has been managed over the years, still causes tension and hostility every now and again.

Backstory: DP left Dsd18 at the age of 4 and in another country at to be with ExW, ( yes I know it's shitty & have told DP so myself).

DP left ExW when Dsd10 was 4, (reoccurring theme, I know), and the guilt of his first breakup has followed him. DP has said he regrets leaving Dsd18, although they are building a relationship now.

From the age of 4 till now DSD10 gets told she is the most important little lady in his life. I don't particularly like that as DP does have an older female child.

DP had 4 yrs of non-stable relationships, non of whom were introduced to Dsd10 and effectively they existed as a single unit. For part of this time DSD10 also lived full time with DP.

DP has deferred to Dsd10:

What car he drives. Expensive convertible, soon changed for something more practical.

Our first home. I didn't realise DP had already viewed it with DSD10 and found it acceptable.

Family pet, again a stealth viewing.

Things have got better over the years but DP does occasionally defer adult decisions to Dsd10, instead of discussing as a family or as adult choices.

DSD10 does sometimes see me as a rival for DPs affection, even though it is a totally different type of love. ie: DP cannot touch or be near me when Dsd10 is here. DSD10 will actually kiss DP and then check to see if I'm looking and smirk.

Dsd10 will want to check any items we are buying, sofa, car etc. are Ok.

DSD10 must be sat next to DP, holding his hand & being spoon fed at any function that requires eating. Any other female s that approach are given lasers, including DPs own mother!

Tbh, I just leave them to it now as DP is oblivious & I enjoy the peace & quiet.

It has taken me some time to realise that DSD10 is probably jealous of the affection between myself & DP and I am better off leaving them to their own relationship, however I know many SMs will notice a significant change in their DPs behavior towards them when Dsc are around.

Okay then. I'll just PM you in future to check if it's okay first.

I don't get why the term mini wife sybdrone and what OP is describing, including the fact that the father's own parenting has led to this situation, are very different or incompatible.

I am wilkibg to agree it is offensive to many, but it indicates exactly the type of dynamic here as I have always understood the term. And I find it odd to think that 'mini wife syndrome' automatically means child at fault, but 'parentification' magically acknowledges parent at fault.

If people don't like the term, fine, but I think way too much is being read into it.

Pleased to hear it happy I will await you PM's with baited breath. While we are at in anything you would like me to PM you with?

Why is MWS so well liked in terms of the phrase?

I have expressed enough reasons why I don't like it could somebody please tell me why they do/are ok with it? And what it means to them.

I don't 'like' it, I just DONT like posters being jumped on and pronounced awful and child-hating for using it.

It really reminds me of all the outcry over 'BM' - people see the term and then make the most extreme judgements about the user. I used to use that term unwittingly and I know that I don't have the least issue with DSS's mum, who is actually a good friend, and absolutely no desire to diminish her role and be DSS's mum myself. Yet people told me I must have! Totally ridiculous, and it really upsets me to see others fall into the same trap I did.

If a poster posts a reasonable post but uses the term BM or mini wife, I will judge them as a reasonable person. If they post an unreasonable, nasty post but use the terms 'mother' and 'parentification' I won't judge them any the nicer for it.

However I now take it upon myself to warn posters unaccustomed to mumsnets ways not to use the BM abbreviation as they will be judged negatively for it, so will do the same with mini wife from now on.

Fair enough and I am not defending jumping on anyone but that is exactly how it comes across sometimes when it is used.
That the poster hates the child and that it is the child's fault. That daddies little princess must get everything her own way, sit near him, never be told off etc. If you give that sort of mind set a name such as MWS it just compounds to the OP that she is correct and it is the child's fault.

Would you express disgust if a poster described a child in their care as stupid?
I would bet many poster have & would.

If a child has a SN and is displaying behaviours out of their control and a poster said the child was a brat and is doing it on purpose to annoy me. Would you sit back and agree with the poster or would you come down on them and tell them that the child is in no way to blame?

For me MWS is like that. The child is displaying behaviours which are usually caused by the behaviour of the adults around them. They are not being mini wives. They are children who are trying to get a long in an adult way. This is what causes the problems.

I don't think I'm explaining myself very well so I will apologise and try again.

When you talk about things you can and can't say on here for fear of upsetting someone I agree it can get daft. I don't like the term BM I think it sounds dismissive when used outside of adoption. However for all I may express that to a poster, I would not call them vile or child hating. Using the term BM doesn't have any repercussions for a child.

The term mini wife is different. It is not an abbreviation it is a term to describe the behaviour of a daughter towards her father in a negative way against the child.
Rarely have I seen mini wife used and accompanied with 'and the poor girl is so confused and DH cannot see he is the cause of it'.
More often than not it is coupled with 'she is such a princess, pushing me out and demanding DH's time and attention. It is unfair and I hate it.'

It is not the words mini wife I hate, it is the baggage that comes with it. I also believe it clouds the main issue/problem and once a SP has decided that it is MWS they look no further than the child to change the behaviour.

Not sure I did any better that time either. Too tired after no sleep.

It's fine, for you the term has certain implications that it doesn't for me. I don't think I HAVE seen many posts where someone has called their DSD a mini wife and people have agreed it's her fault rather than the father's, but we can agree to differ.

I don't think it's in the spirit of mumsnet to comment on a post, where a poster is obviously upset or dealing with something frustrating, ONLY to make a disaparaging comment about their choice of terminology, and leave it at that. To me it smacks of finding any excuse to villify stepmothers.

And finally, I don't think that acknowledging it's not all the child's fault should mean that we then can't offer any sympathy to the stepmother in the situation, because it must be bloody frustrating and annoying to be in this situation, and I think it's natural that some of those annoyed feelings would often be felt towards the child EVEN THOUGH the rational part of you knows they are acting this way because they have been allowed to, or even conditioned to. This is probably the only place the stepparent is going to be allowed to vent those feelings, but lots of posters, I imagine many of which aren't SP (though I don't know of course, it's just as feeling) seem to think that because they're acknowledging them on an online board, they're acting on them in real life and damaging their DSC because of it. Which I think in most cases is the opposite, you spend all your life trying to bite your lip and be understanding and put yourself last, and here is the ONE place you can get things off your chest.

I don't like the idea that beacuse people vent on here and people say 'I understand' they are encouraged to act a certain way in real life, I just don't think the two are that connected. Not in my case anyway, I think DP and DSS and DSS's mum would be quite surprised if they saw my posts here over teh last 5 years.

Because, flossy, it means nothing to anyone. Nothing at all. It's just a quick identifier of what you're posting about. Nothing more, nothing less. But if people are going to get their pants in a bunch about it then I'll take note and use something else so I can get to the point without all the histrionics!

I have no experience of SDs only young adult SS who lived with us for six years of our relationship from age 17 when I came into his fathers life. I do know from my experience there is in some cases a real jealousy of any 'romantic' relationship the 'childs' dad enters into and again ime there is sometimes real intent to sabotage or even destroy that relationship. I most definitely 'blamed the child' in my case as he was easily old enough and intelligent enough to know what he was doing. So I think it depends on the age and mental capacity of the 'child' and is equally not automatically always the stepmother just being nasty/jealous.

OP, you say your DSD did not meet any of her dad's girlfriends following his break up with her mother. Do you know what he told his DD about these women?

Happy you are just rude. You have been rude to me throughout this thread.

I am not the only one on this thread who as expressed a dislike of the term yet it is me you seem to target. I have also offered the OP advice which she thanked me for even though I said I didn't like the term MWS.

I have tried as best I can to describe why I do not think MWS is productive or helpful when used in such away. I have a different view on SPing to you and I give advice differently. Are you so rude to me because I think differently to you?

Do you know what I'm too tired.

Use whatever terminology you like happy carry on with the collective child hating if that is what you prefer as you agreed earlier this positive view on step parenting won't last and the tide will turn again.
Which by the way is implying that you have a negative view on SPing and prefer the boards to remain that way. Something I will never understand I suppose.

I will endeavour not to cross paths with you again as I find your negative attitude unsupportive unhelpful and draining.

OP if you are still reading I hope that DP can see what he needs to do to correct the situation and hopefully you can both work towards changing it.

There's no child hating. It's just a wish to conflab with fellow stepmums who feel the pain of the saga. That's it. We all instantly know what is meant by the term "mini wife" we don't read in to it. We don't want to justify it. It is what it is.

When I read the term "mini wife", it looks as though the focus is on the child's behaviour. Not the actions of the adult who caused it and whose job it is to fix it.

Oh here we go again!

Why Dione?? Why assume the worst? There's no reasoning. It's like waiting to be offended.

Mini and wife are two words that just shouldn't go together. The undertones are so clearly troubling. It's a horrible phrase, regardless of anybody's stance on step parents.

I resented my stepfather when I was a teenager, I'm sure I was an utter horror. I know it's a really tricky relationship.

When I read the term "mini wife", it looks as though the focus is on the child's behaviour. Not the actions of the adult who caused it and whose job it is to fix it.

Yes, I think this sums it up. The problem is caused by adults and can only be rectified by the adult, yet the adult isn't mentioned at all when using that term.

But if people are going to get their pants in a bunch about it then I'll take note and use something else so I can get to the point without all the histrionics!

How about we agree to go with parentification then, as most people seem to agree this gets the gist across without offending anyone.

Actually, the phrase we are looking for is simply the well known 'indulgent parent' and would suit just as well.

For the reasons that I have given above.
For the reason Morris just gave.
Because it sounds adversarial, as though the child is seen by the SM as a rival.
Because it is sexist.

I don't seek offense and am rarely offended. I have a hide like an elephant me.

What is your objection to dropping the term and instead posting about your DSD's actual behaviour when seeking advice, or just wanting a rant. Surely being specific is better than using an emotionally loaded term that may mean different things to different people.

Because this is all moveable. One poster will be here today and not tomorrow. Other posters will join. Let's not scare them all off with policing phrases. They mean nothing. Are we that stupid that we can't read between the lines??

Mini wife syndrome is an awful term that puts the blame squarely on the child and implies an inappropriate amount of intimacy in the father/daughter relationship.

Ask any child if they want to marry their dad. They would probably be ewww, no. It dismisses a child's anxieties and insecurities as jealousy, and as an adult in that situation, surely the role is to reassure the child rather than engaging in a battle of 'who loves me more'.

OP, I'm not saying you've done this, I just wanted to address some of the bs being spouted on the thread.

Apparently so happy because what I and it appears a fair few others see between the lines of MWS is that it is child blaming, potentially abusive, labelling, crude and in most cases wrongly attributed to the situation.

I don't get you.

You say:

Because, flossy, it means nothing to anyone. Nothing at all. It's just a quick identifier of what you're posting about. Nothing more, nothing less

But that's not true is it? It does mean something more to people. Many have expressed that here and on other threads. Yet you seem reluctant to accept that.