Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science

[truthwithin]

I have read some threads recently that mock SMs for suggesting their Dsds are miniwives.

Whilst some of these threads are typed in a moment of despair or anger and may come across as jealous or hateful, living with it is both detrimental to child and partner.

I only have experience of father / daughter spousification and, although this has been managed over the years, still causes tension and hostility every now and again.

Backstory: DP left Dsd18 at the age of 4 and in another country at to be with ExW, ( yes I know it's shitty & have told DP so myself).

DP left ExW when Dsd10 was 4, (reoccurring theme, I know), and the guilt of his first breakup has followed him. DP has said he regrets leaving Dsd18, although they are building a relationship now.

From the age of 4 till now DSD10 gets told she is the most important little lady in his life. I don't particularly like that as DP does have an older female child.

DP had 4 yrs of non-stable relationships, non of whom were introduced to Dsd10 and effectively they existed as a single unit. For part of this time DSD10 also lived full time with DP.

DP has deferred to Dsd10:

What car he drives. Expensive convertible, soon changed for something more practical.

Our first home. I didn't realise DP had already viewed it with DSD10 and found it acceptable.

Family pet, again a stealth viewing.

Things have got better over the years but DP does occasionally defer adult decisions to Dsd10, instead of discussing as a family or as adult choices.

DSD10 does sometimes see me as a rival for DPs affection, even though it is a totally different type of love. ie: DP cannot touch or be near me when Dsd10 is here. DSD10 will actually kiss DP and then check to see if I'm looking and smirk.

Dsd10 will want to check any items we are buying, sofa, car etc. are Ok.

DSD10 must be sat next to DP, holding his hand & being spoon fed at any function that requires eating. Any other female s that approach are given lasers, including DPs own mother!

Tbh, I just leave them to it now as DP is oblivious & I enjoy the peace & quiet.

It has taken me some time to realise that DSD10 is probably jealous of the affection between myself & DP and I am better off leaving them to their own relationship, however I know many SMs will notice a significant change in their DPs behavior towards them when Dsc are around.

Mini wife clearly does mean something. If I had no idea of the context I'd assume something truly disgusting.

The term "mini wife" may put posters off. It may mean nothing to you, but it means something unpleasant to others and they have told you this. If indeed such phrases "mean nothing" to you but are considered deeply unpleasant by others, why not just stop using them?

Yes fine.

You wait about to be offended. Pathetic.

Good luck to you. Thank god I have real life support. Pity those who come here as a last resort.

I shouldnt think anybody coming here as a last resort would use that term in their OP. If they did, but were otherwise polite etc then of course they'd get support.

I pity those that came for support and got chased away by the "mini wives" club when they questioned the terms usage and I pity all those that were driven away with aggression when they questioned certain posters on their deeply unpleasant attitudes towards children.

Being a step mother comes with it's own unique and difficult challenges but it doesn't mean you get to talk about children like that in order to "vent". How about you start "venting" at the idiotic men in your lives that have placed BOTH you and their children into these situations? OR how about you start looking at yourselves and your reactions to a child caught up in adult dynamics but no adult experience to manage them? Because in the situations you are describing, where young children are involved, those are the only two reasons for the troubles you describe. Stop perching silly labels on them and look at the adults, change your behaviours and your children's behaviours will follow. First rule of child rearing, leading by example, give them something decent to absorb.

Quite literally can't be arsed any more.

This board will be here to support you Happy, to support other step parents, step children and the parents of step children.

And I think it will be a better place to do so if the loaded, emotional term "mini wife" isn't used.

Happy was that a threat?

I should think anyone coming here is doing so because they want support and they will get it just delivered in different ways.

If you really desire the freedom to hate/blame/vent about children for the situations you find yourself in then start a thread with the title I hate my step child because......
I am sure you will get many people adding to it with their own special thoughts of hating their SDC's. I personally wouldn't comment on it nor would I bother about any that do. I just think that kind of support/solidarity is not best placed when the OP of a thread is looking for help.

This thread is bizarre - a bit like arguing that depression or other psychological condition doesn't exist because it offends people.

No, Wakey. Noone is arguing that this type of emotional abuse does not exist. They are arguing that the descriptive language we use for a dynamic is important, that it (in this instance) betrays assumptions about the child's role - that they have capacity, choice, responsibility. A better analogy would be, if we were to call depression malingering, and then argue that this is just a descriptive term that has no bearing on the understanding of the condition itself.

In this instance it also sexualises the child, which is no coincidence - the phrase is chosen in order to capture what is commonly reported to be part of the dynamic, a physical / romantic exchange between father and daughter (here, the child demands to be fed, kisses the father and challenges the physical affection between the father and his partner).

All of this, in reference to a ten or twelve or eight or six year old child.

The term mini wife makes me feel sick.

Being a step mother comes with it's own unique and difficult challenges but it doesn't mean you get to talk about children like that in order to "vent".

What do you mean by vent 'like that'? Do you mean 'at all if it implies any annoyance/frustration with the child'? Because that is what I disagree with.

If you mean using terms like 'mini wife' then that takes us back on the whole roundabout of that term. I am honestly surprised that so many read a sexualised thing into that term and spousification, the term has always been for me about power and elevated status and nothing sexual.

Christ op and the one before you really need to get a grip. Stop being jealous of your partners daughters! (and it is only daughters...).
Basically you get with men who are terrible parents and can't be arsed to take care of their daughters so they have to act grown up before their time and do housework and childcare of younger siblings and because the dad doesn't want to parent they are treated like a friend.
Then you for some bizarre reason get married to this catch of a guy and then blame the little girl for any problems in your relationship. Because you don't want to parent but have to because of the fathers poor parenting and because you hate women and see all women even children as your rival. Be a grown up and love these girls. Try and teach your partners to grow up to.

I'm surprised that you find it surprising that the terms could be viewed in that manner.

A spouse/wife is someone who shares an emotional and almost always sexual relationship with another person.

It is a term often used in courts in cases of child abuse. The correct term is for what you are talking about is "boundary dissolution".

It's something I've been hearing more and more recently and to be honest it makes my skin crawl every time I hear it being used.

Truthwithin I have re-read this thread, reading only your posts. The first thing I need to say is that your DP is the cause of his DD's behaviour. He does not merely facilitate it.

His guilt regarding his first DD is destroying his relationship with you, has wrecked your relationship with DSD2, hurt your children and is not healthy for his DD2. Has he ever had help for this?

You are correct to be concerned about the future.. Your DP is much worse than an "ineffectual twat". He is assuaging his guilt regarding DD1 and doesn't care about the price that all of you are paying for this.

No riverboot I did not mean they couldn't vent at all, that's why it said "like that" meaning referring to them as "mini wives". To be honest though there's things I have read on this board that would have had the poster who said it roasted to a crisp if they'd been said on the main board. When I have said it's too much, I have been aggressively attacked and told that the step mothers right to vent supersedes that. That's what I take issue with.

I guess we all have different lines in terms of what we deem an outburst of pent up frustration and what we deem a nasty attack on stepchildren. The board has to accommodate that.

I agree things are said on this board that would be ripped to shreds elsewhere on mumsnet, but I see that as more indicative of the hostile attitude of some mumsnetters towards stepparents than a fault of stepparents themselves, often anyway. Last week there was a thread on AIBU in which a poster was attacked both for calling herself a stepmother when she wasn't one in the eyes of Poster A, then later in the thread was attacked by Poster B for reffering to her partner's daughter as 'the child' rather than 'my stepdaughter'. Both posts accompanied by hearty rounds of 'poor child'. It's indicative of the double standards SPs are held to by some on mumsnet, and probably part of the reason people vent more loudly and frustratedly on this board.

I also think that some posters, particularly non SPs are quick to assign motives like 'jealousy' or 'nastiness' or 'trying to take over' to any negative emotions SPs post about, whereas people who are actually SPs know that you don't need to be a jealous or nasty person to be worn down and frustrated by the daily challenges inherent in step parenting.

Of course it is real, and the fact that it makes some people uncomfortable does not invalidate it in anyway. The Flat Earth Society can call it misogyny or child-blaming or whatever they like; I find the professional work on the topic to be more convincing.
If anyone is reading this thread and wondering about the topic, I refer them to this other thread, where I have posted some other information and a number of links to highly credible sources. Apologies for repeating the link here, and I am sure I will do it again - but I think that any thread on this topic should be linked back to one thread where such resources can be located, rather than trying to explain the theory afresh every time the muddle-headed try to shout it down.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/stepparenting/2149675-Some-resources-if-you-are-wondering-about-parentification-and-spousification

It depends what you are saying is real. That some dads are neglectful and expect the daughters to act like parents or that daughters are manipulative hussies that want all of daddies love and hate their poor step mummies?
Just because a therapist in the USA has looked into it doesn't make it true. It seems to only be used as a way to bully little girls though in practice/

Just because a therapist in the USA has looked into it doesn't make it true.

When I joined MN, I naively used the term parental alienation and was met with many of the same responses (almost word for word) as have been used on this thread.
Back then, PA was a term used in the States and Canada, but was not acknowledged or accepted in this country. It offended people, it was considered an excuse for poor parenting, assuaged the guilt of OW - and of course, placed the blame firmly on the child.

Now, of course, parental alienation, more commonly referred to as implacable hostility in this country, is an accepted, well recognised and legally applicable term. It is a family dynamic for which therapies have been developed and treatments applied.

Funny how things change, isn't it.

On what other board are adults advised to ignore child neglect?

And where has that been advised bdr?

That is precisely what is being advocated when stepmums are told to 'stay out of it'; that the problem is 'a fantasy'; that it is (your words, though I see you have done that clever strike-thru thing to them) 'made up'; that the behaviours are 'normal'; and in a dozen other ways.

...Or that stepmums should focus only on their own behaviours, not on the neglect of the other adults in their DSC's lives.

Not saying this is my opinion, but at what age does a child begin to take an adult responsibility for their own actions..?

If we are going down the road of saying that children are all simply a product of their circumstances, and any behavior is simply a reaction to this, at what age will this shift to being their responsibility? Surely, if this theory works, then I as as an adult am too just a product of my circumstance?

10 year olds have been convicted of murder, a worse crime than emotional manipulation.