Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science

[truthwithin]

I have read some threads recently that mock SMs for suggesting their Dsds are miniwives.

Whilst some of these threads are typed in a moment of despair or anger and may come across as jealous or hateful, living with it is both detrimental to child and partner.

I only have experience of father / daughter spousification and, although this has been managed over the years, still causes tension and hostility every now and again.

Backstory: DP left Dsd18 at the age of 4 and in another country at to be with ExW, ( yes I know it's shitty & have told DP so myself).

DP left ExW when Dsd10 was 4, (reoccurring theme, I know), and the guilt of his first breakup has followed him. DP has said he regrets leaving Dsd18, although they are building a relationship now.

From the age of 4 till now DSD10 gets told she is the most important little lady in his life. I don't particularly like that as DP does have an older female child.

DP had 4 yrs of non-stable relationships, non of whom were introduced to Dsd10 and effectively they existed as a single unit. For part of this time DSD10 also lived full time with DP.

DP has deferred to Dsd10:

What car he drives. Expensive convertible, soon changed for something more practical.

Our first home. I didn't realise DP had already viewed it with DSD10 and found it acceptable.

Family pet, again a stealth viewing.

Things have got better over the years but DP does occasionally defer adult decisions to Dsd10, instead of discussing as a family or as adult choices.

DSD10 does sometimes see me as a rival for DPs affection, even though it is a totally different type of love. ie: DP cannot touch or be near me when Dsd10 is here. DSD10 will actually kiss DP and then check to see if I'm looking and smirk.

Dsd10 will want to check any items we are buying, sofa, car etc. are Ok.

DSD10 must be sat next to DP, holding his hand & being spoon fed at any function that requires eating. Any other female s that approach are given lasers, including DPs own mother!

Tbh, I just leave them to it now as DP is oblivious & I enjoy the peace & quiet.

It has taken me some time to realise that DSD10 is probably jealous of the affection between myself & DP and I am better off leaving them to their own relationship, however I know many SMs will notice a significant change in their DPs behavior towards them when Dsc are around.

cosi I would say that the child can be treated as an adult when they are an adult.

I take great offence at that brd and suggest you choose your words very carefully. You are saying that I have advised a poster to ignore child neglect. You have a damn nerve.

I have not once said it was fantasy nor have I said stay out of it. In fact I think you will find on this very thread that I encouraged the OP to get involved.
I have also said on this thread that the behaviours of all adults involved should be looked at as they will ultimately influence the childs.

I think the name mini wives is made up. Not the philological premise behind it.

I will ask you to either copy and paste a statement from me where I have said it is fantasy and also where I have advised anyone to ignore child neglect. If you cannot I would like an apology for accusing me of such things.

Psychological Auto correct.

How is the partner of your parent not acting as though they are your parent neglect? My stepfather doesn't and has never parented me because he is not my parent he is my mums partner. But neither of them at any point neglected me!
I'm not sure what benefit there is in blaming children for your issues? It's a weird scapegoat. The parent just needs to learn to parent effectively.
Why if you look up this at all is it just stepmothers who hate their stepdaughters being horribly nasty about them? And why are the adults not sorting this just hating the kids?

Parental alienation is still disputed btw.

There will be no apology forthcoming, Flossy, and I think you have a bit of cheek.
I did not say that You said it was fantasy or that You advised the OP to stay out of it. You asked And where has that been advised bdr? and I listed examples from different posters. I accurately included your use of the words "made up". I did not ascribe all the examples to you, so this -
I will ask you to either copy and paste a statement from me where I have said it is fantasy and also where I have advised anyone to ignore child neglect. If you cannot I would like an apology for accusing me of such things. -
appears to be an intentional misreading of my post.

How is the partner of your parent not acting as though they are your parent neglect? My stepfather doesn't and has never parented me because he is not my parent he is my mums partner. But neither of them at any point neglected me!
What do you mean? No one is talking here about the stepparent being the neglectful party (although a stepparent who observes neglect and does nothing is not IMHO acting responsibly).

Brdgrl can you explain how neglect is being advocated then? Who is being neglectful? You aren't making much sense.

I can see exactly what you are doing brd.

At no point has anyone else on this thread advised SM's to ignore child neglect. Many have advised looking beyond the child and to her DP but none have advised what you have just accused them of.

I think it is pretty disgusting of you to say actually.

You can carry on beating your MWS drum all you like brd it is obvious to me that many posters who don't believe it is helpful for the OP or the child to put that label on them will continue to disagree with you.

You can start as many threads with mile long OP's and informative links as you like but there will still be those that have a different approach to SP that does not immediately target the child.

The fact that you have needed to result to such disgusting allegations and accuse posters who disagree with you of encouraging child neglect says a hell of a lot more about you than anyone who disagrees with you.

Just had to jump in here for clarification. At NO point did I use the phrase 'miniwife' or 'spousification' as a sexualised term. Other posters on here jumped to that conclusion. To me it regards a transference of 'power' from parent to child.

Some posters found it offensive, I apologised. Did my way of thinking change? Not really. Especially since the focus was on the term used rather than the problem at hand.

I especially would like to see how many of the 'offended' are qualified psychologists or even how many are step- mums.

I have found that this does not just happen in blended families, but also traditional ones & it can be any sex parent to any sex child.

I gave up on the thread a few days ago, not because I agreed with the detractors, but for I cannot have a level minded discussion with anyone who is aggressive, makes sweeping comments, or is so single minded that anyone who disagrees with them, must be wrong.

Do I still believe Dsd10 behaves as a MW? - yes

Do I think DP has caused this? - yes

Will I post my reasoning - possibly

Can I actually be a**ed now - not really.

Just to point out I have 2 children of my own. So whilst they get left out of the whole scenario, and posters can feel better about telling me how much of a 'jealous' , 'awful', 'feel sorry for the poor child', tripe that is usually spouted on here........ask yourselves this. How would you expect to be treated by your own child?

If we are going down the road of saying that children are all simply a product of their circumstances, and any behavior is simply a reaction to this, at what age will this shift to being their responsibility? Surely, if this theory works, then I as as an adult am too just a product of my circumstance?
Cosi, I think it is to an extent true that we are all products of our circumstances. Figuring that out, and overcoming any negative impact that it has on our relationships, is a long process for most people - adulthood doesn't happen overnight.Some people will continue to focus on their childhood circumstances as the root of their unhappiness, well into "adulthood", while others seem more able to change their behaviours and find alternative ways of responding to situations. Many of us will be familiar with the situation of going for a visit with parents and siblings,a and falling back into old roles. That is why it seems sensible to me that family systems therapy looks at the relationships between members of a family and how those relationships and dynamics have developed, then work to change them. To me, it isn't about saying "this is all mum's fault because she did x", but saying "when mum did x, i responded by doing y" - how can we change that fault in the system? Maybe mum will never stop doing x, but I can respond by doing z, and get a different result. Extend that out to a whole family unit, and you have a handful of people all responding to a dynamic. Just focusing on one person in that dynamic and trying to change their behaviour, without looking at the system, is probably not going to work.
As for when children become 'responsible' for their own personalities and behaviours, I don't know how anyone can ever really answer that. As a parent, I suppose it is part of our job to teach that sense of responsibility gradually. As an individual, I suppose it is part of our self-development to cultivate that in ourselves.
I think most stepmums either begin from or reach a point where they understand that the dynamics of the family they have formed with their partner are not exclusively determined by the children. But it is undeniably true that the children play a part in those dynamics, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously, and the responsibility of an "adult" stepchild versus a toddler in those dynamics is clearly going to be different.

truth you never put a sexual tone to the use of MWS or spousification and I apologise if I ever gave the impression that you did.

Others including myself feel that way about MWS but that is not something you attached to the terms you used or to your posts.

You didn't answer my question.
You didn't really answer anyone else's. So an 8 year old should be self reflecting and looking at their behaviour because that simply isn't going to happen. They don't have that level of understanding and insight. Parents need to treat their children as children but at the same time don't let new partners dictate their relationship with their child. It's not hard.

I'm not sure how anyone can not think mini WIFE means something sexual. A wife means to be in a romantic relationship.

truth Not for one minute did I think you meant a sexual tone.

Do I think DP has caused this? - yes

I think this is the crux of the matter and therein lies your resolution. As has been said, he really needs to change his behaviour which will, in turn, change hers.

Brdgrl can you explain how neglect is being advocated then? Who is being neglectful? You aren't making much sense.&
While the literature is clear on the point that spousification and parentification covers a range of behaviours and can differ in severity and impact on the child, it is equally clear in saying that it can constitute a form of neglect. The parent or parents are neglectful of the emotional and developmental needs of the child.

I don't believe I said that neglect is being advocated - what I suggested was that adults are being advised to ignore neglect: On what other board are adults advised to ignore child neglect?
When an adult who has observed what they are concerned might be an unhealthy dynamic or possible child neglect is told that it is none of their business, to stay out of it, or that they are fantasizing, that is wrong.

It is neglectful that fathers Can't be bothered to parent so get their daughters to do it but equally the stepmothers who call this being a 'mini wife' are very hateful and jealous so are also abusive to the child but in a different way. They need to change their attitude first!

You didn't answer my question.
Er, I was answering cosi.
You didn't really answer anyone else's. So an 8 year old should be self reflecting and looking at their behaviour because that simply isn't going to happen. They don't have that level of understanding and insight. Parents need to treat their children as children but at the same time don't let new partners dictate their relationship with their child. It's not hard.
Yeah, OK. Not what I said, in the slightest. An 8 year old being self reflective? Pretty much the opposite of what I said, actually.

You seem very confused and you aren't comprehending basic points. If I am not making sense, may I suggest you read the ample literature on the topic?

You said the issue is kids blaming their parents when they should be working out what they can change. That's possible if they are adults but not if they are children. What solution do you propose?

That is not being said on this thread brd.

I have no idea if it has been said on other threads but on this one the OP has not been advised to ignore child neglect but has instead been encouraged to talk to her DP.

Sorry brd but you cannot hold me or many others on this thread responsible for what others have said on past threads. That is ridiculous and is in no way a reason to promote MWS as the answer to every SPing issue where usually it is the DSD that has the behaviours but which are more often than not caused by the father.

Flossymoo The term was used merely for posters who may find themselves in my situation. It's very easy for people to be judge & jury online.

Unless you actually experience it yourself, it's difficult to explain, understand & be supported.

a

itsbetterthanabox obviously the term anyone means the whole human race. Can you not accept that not anyone could think the same as yourself!

You said the issue is kids blaming their parents when they should be working out what they can change.
That's not what I said, better. It's not even close.

That's possible if they are adults but not if they are children. What solution do you propose?
As I have repeatedly said, I propose that the solution is an approach which considers the dynamics in the family and works to redefine boundaries. The child ought to be allowed to be a child and to form age-appropriate relationships, and to develop a sense of self that is not reliant on the parent(s). If there are siblings, they ought to be able to develop independent relationships with their parent(s), and if applicable to be free of the dominance of the 'spousified' child. A professional with experience in family systems therapy ought to be able to help with that.

truth You have explained why you used it and you explained your situation very well in earlier posts there is no further need for explanation for me, you are in a terrible situation and very much stuck in the middle. I never wanted to judge you and I did try and support you in ways to sort this out.