Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science

[truthwithin]

I have read some threads recently that mock SMs for suggesting their Dsds are miniwives.

Whilst some of these threads are typed in a moment of despair or anger and may come across as jealous or hateful, living with it is both detrimental to child and partner.

I only have experience of father / daughter spousification and, although this has been managed over the years, still causes tension and hostility every now and again.

Backstory: DP left Dsd18 at the age of 4 and in another country at to be with ExW, ( yes I know it's shitty & have told DP so myself).

DP left ExW when Dsd10 was 4, (reoccurring theme, I know), and the guilt of his first breakup has followed him. DP has said he regrets leaving Dsd18, although they are building a relationship now.

From the age of 4 till now DSD10 gets told she is the most important little lady in his life. I don't particularly like that as DP does have an older female child.

DP had 4 yrs of non-stable relationships, non of whom were introduced to Dsd10 and effectively they existed as a single unit. For part of this time DSD10 also lived full time with DP.

DP has deferred to Dsd10:

What car he drives. Expensive convertible, soon changed for something more practical.

Our first home. I didn't realise DP had already viewed it with DSD10 and found it acceptable.

Family pet, again a stealth viewing.

Things have got better over the years but DP does occasionally defer adult decisions to Dsd10, instead of discussing as a family or as adult choices.

DSD10 does sometimes see me as a rival for DPs affection, even though it is a totally different type of love. ie: DP cannot touch or be near me when Dsd10 is here. DSD10 will actually kiss DP and then check to see if I'm looking and smirk.

Dsd10 will want to check any items we are buying, sofa, car etc. are Ok.

DSD10 must be sat next to DP, holding his hand & being spoon fed at any function that requires eating. Any other female s that approach are given lasers, including DPs own mother!

Tbh, I just leave them to it now as DP is oblivious & I enjoy the peace & quiet.

It has taken me some time to realise that DSD10 is probably jealous of the affection between myself & DP and I am better off leaving them to their own relationship, however I know many SMs will notice a significant change in their DPs behavior towards them when Dsc are around.

happy phrases and labels that are derogatory should always be challenged.

Phrases/labels that were once used 20 years ago regarding/describing children with SN will no longer be tolerated. I see the MW label as no different.

It is damaging and as I said earlier is too widely open to interpretation. It can also stop the adults seeing the real cause of the issue which is usually the parent and make them focus on the child. This will not result in change but very easily results in resentment of the child.

FlossyMoo exactly. Although its easy when you put it on paper to see what has gone wrong and the consequences for Dsd10.

DP has definitely gone over the top to make up for the break-up of his marriage and his guilt at leaving Dsd18.

Unfortunately if we are all to stay together I have to change the way DP parents Dsd10. Otherwise I may as well leave.

scottishmummy at no point have I actually called Dsd10 a miniwife on this thread

OP the ostensible purpose of your thread is to argue that, in your words, Spousification / miniwife is real and not a pseudo science

Your levels of self delusion - even about your own thread - are just totally baffling. I urge you to take scottishmummy and CustardFromATin's views seriously.

Unfortunately if we are all to stay together I have to change the way DP parents Dsd10. Otherwise I may as well leave.

Perhaps you could open up a discussion with him about boundaries in general. If he happily admits that he lets her have what she wants because he wants to make her happy, ask him about future possible scenarios.

What about if she wants to have her boyfriend stay over when she is 15 for example, is he still going to let her call the shots. Or if she wants to stay out at an all night party? Is there ever going to be something that he is not comfortable agreeing to and, if so, how is he going to deal with it.

He needs to get those boundaries in place now so that she understands and respects them. Otherwise she will probably kick back against the rules more than the average teen.

So start a fresh with your thinking OP

Ignore the labelling of spousification/MWS. It actually doesn't fit your family situation does it?

As you have posted your view seems to be changing from your op and now you are beginning to see where the problems lie. This will go some way in to making the changes.
However you cannot do this without your DP on board. His realisation that he is the problem and his willingness to change his the key to all this. I'm just not sure if he will see that.

I agree with all the previous posters who pointed out that "mini wife" implies the dynamic and resulting behaviours are down to the child, and not the parent who is the adult.

Perhaps rather than using mini-wife, the DH could be called "treats-his-daughter-as-a-wife-erer", although it's not quite as catchy. This way, you can still convey all the behaviours assosciated whilst also acknowledging who is responsible for it. Win win.

How about dp is 'inflicting spousification on his child'?

FlossyMoo I do find it a lot easier to gather my thoughts on 'paper'. This does make me challenge my own thinking and how can I be a better person.

Apologies to any offended by the MW phrase. It was a rash choice of words on my part.

Anyhoo, I will take all comments in board and who knows maybe things will work out.

No problem OP you were/are frustrated.

I hope that you have found some support on here and that you are a little more positive than when you first posted

Don't apologise truth. I sometimes wonder when we became such crap human beings that rather than help someone, the priority is to tell them they're imagining things and make them see the error of their ways.

I've been saying it for years - there should be an automated caveat or whatever the word is on this page saying "I know it's not the child's fault, but". It's so tedious to have to go through this whole saga every time rather than talk sensibly. I don't even bother starting threads on here (SP) anymore.

I don't know but might it be worth posting on relationships about how to get DH to communicate about parenting?
It seems awful that you have to tiptoe around rather than actually talk because he has put up an 'everything's fine' wall and simply won't discuss it.

Apart from anything else it's incredibly disrespectful that he refuses to even listen to you and that you are going through all sorts of hoops to try and get an outcome which would actually be positive for his child.

It's fine for people to post don't use these terms as they are damaging and don't help anyone.

Op you shouldn't have to tip toe so carefully around this. What happens if you are more upfront about your concerns?

Happy why do you continue to beat this drum?

Nobody said the OP was imagining it. She was however been pulled up on her use of the term MW which as it turns out does not actually apply to the OP's situation. Of course SP are allowed to vent their frustrations but in the OP it does read as though it is the child's fault which in this instance was wrong.

You may agree with MWS and feel it applies to all situations. Fine. Some of us don't and see it has very damaging. The OP has clearly received some good advice and is a lot calmer in her thinking. She is not blaming the child and is instead seeing the DP's behaviour as the problem which needs fixing.

Your need to paint such a bad picture of the SP board is something I do not understand. Just because others do not agree with vile labels does not make the SP a bad place to be. It means that the views are more varied and seen from different angles. It is no longer a few loud voices. It is open to all who can contribute in a positive way. To me that is a good thing.

It's so boring now I literally just log on, roll my eyes and leave again. It's so condescending.

I think the OP was chastised and is now toeing the line.

Well I disagree.

Firstly if it is boring then do not comment further.

Secondly I don't believe the OP is now toeing the line. That is very condescending of you to say happy.

I think the OP has been able to put her thoughts down on here. Receive some good advice and also been given examples why MWS does not apply to her situation. This has allowed her to think and calm down. She is now looking at ways to address her DP's attitude/behaviour as a way of changing the daughters.

I see this as a very positive outcome. Can you explain to me why you do not?

No flossy, I can't. I've better things to do than be talked down to by you.

I don't agree with this idea that the SP board was a few loud voices bent on child blaming or whatever the implication is. It wasn't my experience of the board overthe last few years. And I don't think this thread is a good example of some new fantastic 'positive' way of posting. I agree with Happy that getting slammed because of a choice of terminology and not saying enough times that you don't blame the child and feel sorrier for him/her than you do yourself, is tiresome. Just as tiresome as people providing blind support for stepmothers as they supposedly have done in the past.

I will add mini wife to my list of words not to use, but I will continue to judge posters on what they say and what sort of person they seem to be overall rather than their use of one particular term. I will not agree that someone who uses that term must be a certain type of person with a certain attitude. It can be the case for some words that EVERYONE knows have awful connotations, but not terms used widely in other places online without criticism.

That is my opinion, I recognise the right to others to have different, but wanted to put this out there in light of all the implications that this board is somehow currently undergoing a wonderful rebirth.

Not talking down to you at all happy I only asked you to explain your thinking.

If you are unable to do so then fine. If you are choosing not to then fair enough.
However you are all about putting others opinions/thoughts down even when it appears the more positive mind set has made a difference. I was giving you the opportunity to back up your post of it being boring and stating the OP is now toeing the line.

You have made quite a show of yourself happy.

Just because others do not agree with vile labels does not make the SP a bad place to be. It means that the views are more varied and seen from different angles

It doesn't though, does it? Because anyone who disagrees with the majority view of which labels Are vile and which are acceptable are told off, demands are made to retract comments and those posters opinions and contributions are suddenly dismissed as worthless - just as happened to me on this thread. I politely expressed an opinion about a term that I personally find 'vile', and far from seeing things "from different angles" I was subject to a demand to retract it. My view was not only dismissed, but judged and condemned.

labels are cultural and social. Terms that lead to vilification of posters on MN are common abbreviations on other forums. Similarly, terms that are expected on MN (preceding every relationship with the term 'dear', for instance) are considered unusual elsewhere. But, if a poster misses off a 'D' in front of a reference to their stepchild, then they are challenged and questioned. Why? They are not right or wrong, just different.

Ha! Starting the message with "I'm not talking down to you" then ending with "you've made quite a show of yourself" are you my mother?!

Like riverboat said - we'll all add it to our list of words that can't be used. It's the same as when a new poster at the end of her tether posts "bio mum" in her first post and received three or four "er, we don't use that offensive term on here" before being given any actual advice.

river for me and a few others I suppose there is a difference here.

You don't have to agree and that is not what has been said. You felt it was fine before I didn't. You are not alone in your thinking and nor am I.

I believe there is room for everyone and that all opinions should be heard. I never felt until recently that was true.

You've made quite a show of yourself is a statement.
If I was talking down to you then I would probably say that you have no idea what you are talking about. Your experience/pov are invalid. Go away little girl.

I am not and I have not spoken to you that way. I just challenged your post on it being boring and condescending. Which you apparently did not like.

If you want to act childish then fine, feel free but that to me is making a show of yourself.

I believe there is room for everyone and that all opinions should be heard. I never felt until recently that was true.

It certainly isn't true on this thread!

Like all forums and boards, there will always be a dominant "trend".
Until recently, it was a place where stepparents could vent safely without fear of being criticised for their feelings.
Now it is a place where negative opinions of stepchildren are challenged.

I'm sure the tide will turn again in the future!

Wakey your post was not just a pov it was said to back up your point and in no way helped. You basically said when you hear that term attached to a child you feel it is the childs fault, that they are to blame. That was challenged and rightly so.

In regards to the label used here which was mini wife it was condemned by me as ill fitting of what is happening.
It was used incorrectly to describe the father/daughter relationship.
It is too open to interpretation and if it has a true meaning it is lost because of the word wife and what that implies.
It implies that the child is at fault or has some degree of control.

There are better ways to describe for example the OP's SDD behaviour and MWS is not one of them.

On the contrary. When you reach maturity and have seen a lot of life you realise that things aren't so serious and that nothing is black and white. There is less right and wrong than once thought. Sometimes you just need a rant.

Adult women don't feel the need to tie people in knots asking them to explain themselves again and again just because they disagree.

You seem pleased that you rocked up in this board and changed things for the "better." Congrats. As wakey says, the tide will turn again. And fortunately I have real life support so I'm not worried for myself. I just think all the policing on here is a bit condescending.

But I'm sure you'll carry on and that's fine.