EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@NonplasticBertrand yes, failure to make reasonable adjustments - failure to follow EHCPs can sometimes fall under this.

Although the LA’s duty under s42 CFA 2014 is absolute, so the quickest remedy going forwards is typically JR.

Thanks @BrightYellowTrain. Will talk to the Legal Officer doing the PAP - assume nothing precludes me doing both?

@NonplasticBertrand as with lots of things, that will depend on the specifics of your case. It sounds like you may have a DD case anyway, but just looking at not providing the EHCP provision it will depend on the details of your case because JR is supposed to a remedy of last resort and depending on specifics acknowledging an alternative route can complicate matters.

Got it. Thank you.

@NonplasticBertrand it is similar to the example of appealing the content of the EHCP via SENDIST doesn’t prevent you enforcing the provision in the existing EHCP via JR against the LA for breach of s42 because they are separate matters (just like other disability discrimination is separate to potential DD arising from not providing the provision in the EHCP), but in some situations following the LA’s normal complaints process for failure to provide the current provision can sometimes complicate you going down the JR route for breach of s42 and even where it doesn't, sometimes it isn't the best path because it doesn't always solve the problems going forward (this can be the same sometimes with DD cases) and takes longer (which can also be true of DD cases).

Thanks @BrightYellowTrain always interesting to have your perspective. There was more to the article than the three screenshots Mumsnet would let me post. He also said health/mental health services had been allowed to abnegate their responsibilities, which I thought was fair.

I do agree LAs would be awful arbiters (law? what law?!)

But the current situation is so unsatisfactory.

Anyway, back to the practicalities...

@Phineyj I have been able to read the whole article here.

I can’t speak for the CEO of Nexus (although the article including “without health playing a more active role (especially on funding)” signifies it is possibly a contributing factor to his thinking) but one of the reasons some in education think health have been allowed to abdicate their responsibilities is because health care provision that trains or educates is deemed special educational provision. Thus belongs in F and is ultimately the LA’s responsibility. This can include things like OT, SALT, physio, CBT, DBT, EMDR, art therapy, hydrotherapy...

Scrapping that would not benefit children and young people at all. Health care provision is significantly harder to enforce than SEP in F. In the majority of cases, rather than health take over responsibility for the provision, children and YP would merely not receive a large proportion of the provision. Health isn’t going to pick up the reins.

Other examples where health is cutting costs at the moment include adult CHC/children’s continuing care funding and the potential changes to RTC. A lot of areas are re-looking at funding for the former and either removing health funded support or reducing at the level of support and delegated tasks. If the RTC changes go ahead, that is going to have a detrimental effect on a huge number of people.

Don’t misunderstand me, there is much wrong with the system as it is. Removing rights and avenues to challenge unlawful behaviour is not the answer. It is in the same camp as the government’s suggestion of removing the ability to appeal to SENDIST.

I've only skimmed that article and I am shocked at the ignorance of a CEO of a MAT on the Equality Act. And the lack of rigour at the TES to humour his ill-informed ramblings.

He fails to understand that parents and children can ask for reasonable adjustments now. The EHRC has excellent technical guidance for schools on their obligations under EA2010 so there is no excuse for anyone running a MAT not to understand the law as it applies to their institutions now.

Also very surprising that he cannot identify organic reasons for a rise in EHCPs at a time when the detection and understanding of neurodevelopmental conditions has significantly improved. On enforcement bodies, he appears ignorant of the role of the First Tier Tribunal and the principle of independent determination of what constitutes a reasonable adjustment in the event of a dispute. It is disturbing that he considers that local authorities would be a suitable body given the very obvious conflict of interest.

The main difference between workplaces and schools is that employers are held to account and required to pay out when found guilty of disability discrimination. If we were looking to the Equality Act for inspiration, the obvious step would be to extend financial penalties to schools where they trample on disabled children's rights. That might finally focus the author and his ilk on what the law already requires their organisations to do.

Do many talking heads so keen to dilute the rights of disabled children. Depressing.

*So not do.

I have a meeting next week to discuss the draft EHCP. I have already sent comments ahead of the meeting. So far I have been told that as the draft is cut and pasted from reports, it is my responsibility to get reports changed if I am not happy.

I would argue that as they commissioned the report, surely they are responsible for ensuring they are detailed, specified and quantified as required in the code of practice?

I am assuming they are just abdicating responsibility as they do with everything else.

I do not want to start arguments I won't win and am mindful that I need to pick my battles to get an EHCP that works in the long term.

Do I accept that they don't care and the finalised report will be less than workable and get ready to appeal. Or do I try to get a workable document, which may delay finalising? already late but don't want them to say it is my fault for arguing! It goes against the grain to let people get away with poor service...

DD is yr11 and realistically this is unlikely to be in place properly before her exams. So looking to get it right for sixth form.

Exactly, @NonplasticBertrand. It doesn’t need to be newly ‘instituted’.

The CEO also fails to mention the best endeavours duty some schools have under the Children and Families Act. Perhaps he is unaware of the duty because all bar one of the schools in the Nexus MAT is a special school, so it doesn’t apply to most of his schools? He should focus on getting his own house in order before imploring the government to make wholesale changes to the wider system. For example, he could focus on the issues at the Barnsley site of their Kenwood School over the last few months. A parent told me it is not a happy camp.

@handmademitlove I would push the LA and the report writers to improve their reports. However, I wouldn’t do this at the expense of delaying finalising. Even if the reports are improved, you may well have to appeal to get a good EHCP and if you need to appeal, you want to do that sooner rather than later.

I have just received DS's OT report, therapist has said he will need sessions twice a week lasting 30mins (detailed and specified) and 1:1 supervision at all times in his educational environment as he chews on non-food items. I am awaiting SALT report she has already told me she will be saying he needs direct therapy weekly. I have a meeting next week with LA to make changes to the WD, it will be agreed there and then, hearing is very close. Meeting is penned in for 2hrs. My question is should all the provision from these reports be included, and nothing less?

@Wednesdayy123 all special educational provision reasonably required should be in F (although avoid C&P large chunks of the waffly elements of the report because SENDIST doesn’t like large chunks C&P). Provision is taken from the evidence, so you should propose amendments based on the evidence. Don’t propose less.

However, SENDIST will consider all evidence. Sometimes this means provision ordered by SENDIST falls between both parties’ proposals. For example, evidence you submit might say 2x30mins weekly OT is required and the LA’s evidence might say 4 hours a year and SENDIST might order somewhere in the middle, say 30 mins a week. I am not saying that will definitely happen because it doesn’t happen all the time, just explaining what sometimes happens.

Hello again,
To check I m not having the wool pulled over my eyes, is £900 the going rate just for pre action letters?
I m on carers allowance but DHs income just puts us out of the legal aid bracket, so it's a lot of money to find. Thought of asking SOSSEN but can't find info on their waiting list.

Finally heard from the LA today, my original caseworker is now off on long term sick leave, been assigned a new one, so it's going to panel tomorrow. At least we now have someone to contact. She told me she would send me the ep report today but nothing yet...she said if I wanted anything changed as it wasn't accurate then to contact the EP directly but obviously if the panel is tomorrow then that's highly unlikely to happen..
Hate all this waiting! It's actually week 14 now since I put in the request but it's obviously been delayed by the caseworker being off sick. Guess there isn't anything I can do about that, but it has given me a little more time at least as it's half term and I can't manage phoning schools until next week now anyway.

I have though found a school that might work for DD, it's a mainstream all girls non selective but it has a ARP which is purely for EBSA, anxiety, ASC, etc. only two days a week in year 10 and 4 days in year 11. GCSEs, high academic ability students. Only 40 mins away. Has worked for some girls like my DD anecdotally but I'm not sure if I would name the school or the provision as they are connected but separate. Guess I'll have to wait until schools are back to phone them.

@1995SENNDMUM that is the going rate at the moment. It is at the lower end. If you want to go via SOSSEN, you should get on their waiting list sooner rather than later because more will be joining with LAs missing the phase transfer deadline.

@Icantpeopleanymore you can send the Director of Children’s Services one of IPSEA’s model letters. You could either do that now or wait until after the panel.

Most ARPs are not a separate registered school, so for most, the school is named in section I and the ARP provision detailed in F. Are you sure the ARP will work? I suspect DD’s MH has deteriorated too far for the one I think it is to be successful. If you had been offered that when the mainstream placement first broke down, it may have worked. You would also need other provision on top of the 2 days.

Thank you for your help again. Still can't get through the caseworker but got through to someone on our LAs helpline who advised they ve had 2 consults back so far, one negative and wouldn't say who the positive one was but they don't have responses from 2 others which are now past the 15 days.

Been promised a call back that I d be shocked if it materializes and so will get onto SOS SENs application tonight.

Scrap that caseworkers just emailed to say he's been given a place at the school we wanted, in a fair bit of shock to say the least.

@1995SENNDMUM unless you have the finalised EHCP naming the school in your hand, follow up the conversation with an email so you have a paper trail.

They've confirmed it by email so I have the paper trial and will chase the finalized plan if it doesn't appear in post/via email in the next couple of days.

@1995SENNDMUM apologies, I read your previous post and for some strange reason thought you said the caseworker called.

@BrightYellowTrain yes, you seem to know the provisions around Kent really well so you might have the right one in mind, The viewpoint?

I'm not sure it'll work either. All I know is that she's started to say she's bored, some self care is happening now and seems much happier, if she could have the option of attending somewhere that would be great but it's all so unknown. And yes, something else for the other days, maybe it could be tried in a combination we ith EOTAS? Not sure if that's done usually? She also needs rest days.

Just got the EP report, it seems ok, she has recommended lots of extra provisions, some things that can be provided at mainstream but lots that I don't think could including;

Weekly:

1:1 SULP or similar, provided by a trained member of staff, for 45 mins
1:1 counselling, twice weekly 40-60 mins

Daily
20 mins 1:1 social understanding support
1:1 or small group (doesn't say how many so I'll query this) 40-60 mins per subject daily, not mainstream sized classes.
1:1 daily for an hour with a mentor
15mins 1:1 twice daily check ins with a member of trained staff at start and end of day
1:1 daily support with sensory needs and access to sensory space for an hour with music on headphones.
1:1 2/3 times daily 10-15 mins sensory breaks
1:1 40 mins daily access to safe quiet space.

There's lots more, exemption from PE, physio and OT input, transport, laptop, reduced uniform expectations (baggy jumper, soft clothing), interest based learning in the 1:1 or small group mentioned for each subject.

It seems comprehensive on first reading and seems quantified and specific although there's lots of mentions of trained staff (it does say trained in SULP for one of them) or trusted adult, which is difficult as she doesn't trust adults..it does say when she feels ready to engage in education and when she is able to and that it could build up to this in time. Not sure if this could be used for EOTAS but it feels like it is geared towards a school but not a mainstream.

I feel like I could argue for specialist provision or EOTAS with this, maybe?

@Icantpeopleanymore it was Viewpoint’s provision I was thinking of. Obviously I can only comment based on your posts, but at the moment, I don’t think it would work for DD.

You can have a bespoke package with a setting named in section I with some of the package delivered in a school (whether that’s in MS, ARP, SS) and some otherwise than at school for the parts it would be inappropriate for DC to receive it in a school. But, you can’t have section I blank if attending a school like you would with a full EOTAS/EOTIS package. It would probably take an appeal, I’m afraid.

You need to go through the report very carefully. It needs to be detailed, specified and quantified - who, what, when, where, how…
For example:
“or similar” needs removing.
“trained member of staff” and “trusted adult” - what member of staff/adult, what training?
“counselling” - who will deliver this? Counsellor isn’t a protected title.
“social understanding support” - by who, what support.
What does “daily support with sensory needs” look like?
“access to” needs removing.
If you are going for EOTAS/EOTIS - “per subject” - how many? If you are going to pursue EOTAS, you need evidence it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school.

Thank you, I don't know enough about viewpoint to know if it would work really. I can try to speak to them after half term to find out more.

I'll go through the report properly this evening, kids have just gone to their dad's till Wednesday so I've got more time without my shadow by my side.

Do they take into account the general comments made when drafting the EHCP (it mentioned exhaustion from mainstream, not able to trust adults) or just the recommendations?

I don't know how I can prove provision in a school would be inappropriate, apart from the fact she's not been able to attend and probably can't attend the medical provision they've pushed us to use either.

If panel are meeting tomorrow is there any rush to ask the EP to amend the report to say 4 GCSEs for example? As they'll start writing it soon I assume if they agree to issue. Or would that happen before appeal if I then appealed for EOTAS?