EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@RibbyJumper you and DH are overthinking the £500. It isn’t a way to try to silence you. If it was, it would have to be significantly more - look at how much Kent offered a family in the news previously in an attempt to pay them to move out of the area. It doesn’t prevent legal action for future breaches of the law, either.

Impossible to say if the LA will agree to amendments related to toileting or not. Including toileting needs in F is possible, but sometimes LAs don’t and it forms part of an appeal. All provision has to be detailed, specified and quantified, otherwise it isn’t worth the paper it is written on.

With the reading intervention as well as how often and who with you need things like how long for, 1:1 or group size, where (in the classroom or outside).

Don’t worry about the school thinking you are nagging.

Has your friend spoken to their DS’s specialist nurse?

@BrightYellowTrain

Looking at what his case worker amended, it looked like a quick job - she’d copy pasted chunks of what I’d written on the first few pages and not spent much time on the rest. I get the impression she’d just put it in to be done with me.

Think my friend’s DD - I’ll have to ask more, but I’m sure it must be from GP/OT advice.

She is in the same position - LA have not responded to amended EHCP. She’s chased it after I said about DS and they’ve told her something like ‘if you were happy with the EHC plan meeting, you don’t need to see the EHCP.’ I told her to demand to see it.

And then - I’ve just met friend of a Mum - who is friends with another Mum, whose DS is doing half days in the class. I’m hoping to meet that Mum and have a chat!

Yep, I think in the long run I’ll regret not nagging. Even if it feels uncomfortable.

Terrible. I’ll look that up about Kent.

@handmademitlove we've had exactly the same with speech and language therapy. We got a private assessment, they've issued the plan and I'm now appealing it.

I'm pretty gobsmacked they just determined that she didn't need an assessment (she's autistic) but I think they just don't have any SALTs. The plan includes a sort of SALT-lite rather than the professional input. I also suspect the LA were trying not to go into the next funding band. The secondary she is going to next year actually have a SALT on staff but of course the plan will make sure she gets the level she needs.

In the meantime her primary have so far implemented zero of the EHCP and the SENCO is ignoring my emails. I think they're trying to run down the clock to the end of the year.

@BrightYellowTrain

You seem so humble, but please can I give you the biggest thanks for your advice.

Every parent needs this sort of advice.

If I contact an advice line, it’s a wait - or I need to ensure I’m phoning at the right time.

This has been my ‘go to’ place.

A very, very big ‘THANK YOU’.

So what does this mean???

“To acknowledge the frustration and uncertainty caused by the delays in the Annual Review Process and frustrating your right of appeal we would like to offer a symbolic financial remedy of £500. My recommendations are made in line with the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman (LGSCO) Remedies Guidance”

Is my right to appeal frustrated???

@RibbyJumper you are welcome.

Support children and young people receive typically depends upon their parents’, mostly their mother’s, ability to navigate the system. To know the law, how to advocate for their child and enforce their child’s rights. It should not be this way, but it will not alter in the foreseeable future, so all parents should be supported to negotiate the system because every child and young person deserves to have their needs met.

Many years ago, I received support from MN’ers I could never repay. Some wonderful women held my hand during awful times. It wasn’t related to EHCPs or anything like that, but this is a way of giving back.

Yes, the LA has frustrated (i.e. delayed) your right of appeal by failing to adhere to the AR timescales. They are still frustrating your right of appeal by not finalising the amendments. If the LA stuck to the timescales, you would have been able to appeal last year.

@BrightYellowTrain

Yes, I think there is an assumption that ‘the school/the LA’ knows best.
I now see the ‘school/the LA/parents/the law’ as separate entities - each with their own agenda - but with parents/the law ultimately supporting the best outcomes for an individual child.

The sharing of info is vital. I’m passing on to others what I learn here.

Ok, so I sent of Version 2 of Draft Amended EHCP with annotations. I insisted on the section F format : provision, by whom, frequency and durarion, monitoring and review,

I’ve insisted on contact, if any amendement were changed before issuing the final EHCP.

DS’s birthday party is soon, and I’m planning to donate the £500 to the Mencap venue. So long as I can still appeal if they still drag about issuing the final EHCP.

@RibbyJumper once you have the finalised EHCP, you will be able to appeal whether you accept the £500 or not.

I’ve insisted on contact, if any amendement were changed before issuing the final EHCP.

You can’t insist on ^this. The LA does not have to consult with you again. After issuing the original draft and giving you at least 15 days to make representations, there is no further requirement for the LA to issue another draft if they aren't going to make any amendments or the amendments made are a result of your representations (and to name a type of placement/placement where relevant.) The LA can finalise without consulting you again. This is in SENCOP 9.125.

While things like reviews and monitoring can sometimes lawfully be included in F, you need to be careful with the wording. The wrong wording can make the EHCP worthless without the ability to appeal until after the next AR. For example, if there is OT provision to be reviewed after half a term by the OT, depending on the wording they could stop the OT provision.

Hello please may I join? Early days here just going through ECHNA.

Would anyone be kind enough to share anyadvice as to how best to prepare a preteen DC who gets very anxious for a review at secondary school by the Educational Psychologist from the local Council? It sounds like this might be a 1-1 meeting alone with the DC, with no school staff present? Should the parent be absent or present? What happens if the DC can’t go to school that day due to EBSA?

Also any tips on how to prepare as a parent for the joint assessment meeting (the one where the educational psychologist, teachers and parents meet the EP at the school as part of the ECHNA)?

Beyond telling DD the EP will be there to work out how DD could be better supported, I wouldn’t prepare her. That sounds harsh, but preparing DD is likely to give a false impression, particularly if she is less anxious after being prepared.

The EP should speak to you, but parents aren’t often present for the whole assessment in school. I would request to speak to the EP beforehand to ask questions such as what assessments will be undertaken, what observations will be done in addition to the 1:1 conversation (e.g. structured and unstructured times, with peers, with adults). Ask if the EP will make recommendations for the need for further assessments, e.g. OT, SALT where the LA believes they are necessary. Also, ask the EP to ensure the report is detailed, specified and quantified. Finish by requesting the report is sent to you at the same time as it is sent to the LA - you may receive push back on this, but if you request it, it should be done.

It is helpful to make a list of anything you would like to say and a timeline of events. Think about things like: strengths and needs, what is working well, what isn’t working, what has been tried but hasn’t worked, what is needed but unable to be delivered, DD’s likes/dislikes/what makes her happy, what is important to DD/you and what is important for DD, how DD communicates/how others communicate with her, what she wants to do in the future/aspirations, a bit about family/any other important people in DD’s life, important history/developmental history.

If DD is unable to attend school that day, the EP could visit DD at home or, if DD could manage it, she could just go in the meet the EP. Although if there is going to be a lesson observation, that would be preferable wherever possible.

Thank you for your reply, that is very helpful.

We've had no luck with DS's response to school consults yet and have chased them up this morning, it's only been 17 days since we agreed the draft and named our preferences. I'm wondering with the phase transfer deadline being Saturday, and knowing that the most recent LGO case for my LA missing a phase transfer deadline by 3 months last year was only awarded £200 so i don't really want to bother with the whole complaints process as it won't resolve anything fast enough.

Should I be jumping straight to saying that I'm looking into a pre-action letter next week for a judicial review for a missed deadline or do I ask for SAR for consult results first to try to force a response as to where they are actually up to?

@1995SENNDMUM the phase transfer deadline only applies to existing EHCPs, do you have a finalised EHCP yet?

If DS has an existing EHCP, there is still time for the LA to finalise the phase transfer EHCP between now and the phase transfer deadline. If the LA misses it, the way to go is a pre-action letter. You can make a SAR alongside this, but don’t do it instead of.

If DS doesn’t have an existing EHCP, the 20 week timescale applies. If the LA is in breach of that, you need a pre-action letter.

Ah I see thank you for your help.
The timelines been a bit confusing and we don't have a final EHCP (it's week 44 now off the top of my head).

I replied to the draft on January 20th and his caseworker advised that we d gotten it in the nick of time for his consultations to go in the same pile per se as the children that already have EHCPs for the reception consulations.

She said they wanted to finalise it as current nursery until September 2025 then whichever school is given for September 2025 also in section I once consulations came back and it went to panel, but won't give any predicted timeline on when that ll be.

@1995SENNDMUM if you don’t currently have an EHCP, the upcoming phase transfer deadline doesn’t apply.

Email the Director of Children’s Services threatening JR if they do not finalise ASAP. If that doesn’t work, you need a pre-action letter. Then, if that doesn’t work, JR proceedings will.

I ll get on that, thank you for all your help :)

So we are 16 weeks tomorrow it says decision to issue plan is tomorrow date, I haven’t had any correspondence from my Sen officer and have sent a template letter because it was getting close, today I have emailed the Sen officer to find out what is going on to have a automatic email saying he is on annual leave for the next 10 days, I’ve email the Sen team no reply yet and have tried to call them and it just rings, so we still don’t know if they are going to issue a draft or not, any advice on next steps?

I would email the Director of Children’s Services.

Just seen this on TES (I've had to attach as screenshots as I don't have a subscription. Sounds too sensible to catch on?!

I’m not sure I agree. There is already “a right for parents to request a reasonable adjustment”. That doesn’t need to be newly ‘instituted’. The LA wouldn’t be a reasonable arbitrator. The LGO and OSA wouldn’t be a reasonable remedy either. This is about limiting parents being ‘demanding’ and ‘sharp elbowed’ and aimed at saving money. The change in legislation, regulations and the SENCOP is not what caused an increase in pupils meeting the legal definition of SEN.

If you want an example of why the LA reviewing a school’s decision wouldn’t work, look at the Welsh ALN system. If you think the English SEN system is bad, the Welsh system is even worse. Parents have the right to request LAs reconsider a school’s decision on whether the child has ALN or not. Although they still also have the Tribunal.

Hello wise ones, any ideas what the LA are doing - is it simply running down the clock? EHC plan revised following appeal last year and now has pretty tight section F including 1-2-1 hours for nurture with named key person (TA) outside classroom. LA has funded, but MAT has not recruited. School now claiming dining hall supervision plus another child's mentor in same lessons meets needs. DC not coping on this basis and struggling with EBSA. No home/school liaison to support with this. LA has reviewed situation and say plan is being complied with. GCSEs soon, AR soon, very clear outcomes are not going to be met. Sorting out a PAP letter.

Normal, I’m afraid. Often LAs only listen when enforcement action is taken.

If the LA has adequately funded the EHCP, you could also look at action against the school - either JR for breach of their best endeavours duty (whether that is possible will depend on the specific circumstances) or a disability discrimination claim.

That's interesting!

In terms of a disability discrimination claim, are you thinking failure to make reasonable adjustments given provision needed to avoid DC being placed at a substantial disadvantage is not being made? (There is also existing evidence of possible discrimination arising from a disability).