EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@OnlyHope33 there are SEMH schools. There are also schools who take both SEMH and ASD DC. However, if DS’s primary need (whether the primary need is stated in the EHCP or not. Not all LAs state the primary need. They don’t have to.) is ASD, a SEMH school is unlikely to be the right place.

It is normal for schools to raise objections when consulted. Sometimes they genuinely don’t think they can meet needs. Other times it is more nuanced than that and is e.g. about funding.

Because your preferred school is not wholly independent, the LA does not need them to agree to being named. The LA must name your preferred school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
This is a higher bar than many LAs and schools admit. If the LA doesn’t believe any of the legal exceptions apply, they can and must name them.

If 1:1 is required, it can and should be included in F. That applies regardless of the school you prefer/DS will be placed in. Some pupils in SS do need and have 1:1.

@Mummynwe under another name, I posted on one of the other threads you posted on. Don’t want you to think I am ignoring you.

Good Afternoon all,
I have just found this thread and it looks like we have a lot of work ahead of us!!
I have a DS who is coming up 3 1/2, very behind on his speech and we have had a number of other issues at nursery. We are currently on the NHS waiting list to see a paediatric consultant which is a 2 year wait. Last week we saw a private consultant in London, she made us realise, as well as this thread has, about how broken the system is. Currently going through NHS SALT which really is not helpful, so looking at private speech therapists who all seem to be over subscribed.
Nursery have started towards a EHCP for DS, and consultant we saw says she will support us with one as well.

• Any advice, useful tips welcome for a beginner
• We have been advised to see an occupational therapist, what does one of these do (potential autism) and how can it help towards a EHCP.
• We have started down the private sector with SALT and potentially OT, are these taken into account for EHCP or do NHS reports take priority.

I currently feel I'm going down a rabbit hole, and feel that whilst I feel seeing private consultant was money well spent, I have A LOT of 'homework' to do.

DS is due to start school Sept 2025, has anyone deferred entry by 6 months/ 1 year and was it beneficial for your child.

TIA for any information.

@Applesandpears58 when you say the nursery has started towards an EHCP, has an EHCNA request actually been submitted to the LA? If not, you should make the request yourself ASAP. On their website, ISPEA has a model letter you can use. If a request has been submitted, what week are you on?

Delaying DS starting by 6 months would need careful thought. It is possible you won’t have an EHCP by then, so he would then start in reception in mainstream but having missed the first 6 months of transitioning into reception. Would DS's nursery allow him to stay on? Are his needs currently being met? There’s the option of sending him part-time too.

Because DS is summer born, you could request to defer, so he starts reception in Sept 2026. However, without an EHCP, you would need to school’s admission authority to agree to being educated outside of DS’s chronological year group. This would also need careful thought. Because of how long even expedited appeals are taking at the moment, you may not have a good EHCP by September 2026 if you haven’t to appeal each stage. Deferring won’t solve your issues, but it will allow you time to secure a watertight EHCP when there may not be time for a 2025 start.

If DS is to start reception in Sept 2025 or at any point in that academic year, you should make an application for a place via the normal admissions procedure because you won’t have a finalised EHCP by the application deadline. If an EHCP is later finalised, the school named in there with override any place offered via the normal admission arrangements. In line with the government’s handling admission requests for summer born children guidance, even if you want to defer DS to be educated outside his chronological year group, most (?all) areas require you to apply in the normal age group as well.

Do you have any specialist early years assessment places in your area for DC who are going or need to go through the EHCNA process?

Thank you for your reply, could you explain the difference between an EHCP and a EHCNA?
very new to all this.

An EHCNA is the needs assessment you (or another professional) first request as part of the process of getting (or not!) an EHCP. You don’t apply directly for an EHCP, you request an EHCNA.

Parking my bum.

DS has been refused to issue a plan.

Had mediation, what a waste of time. But I wanted to try as quicker than tribunal.
LA were awful!

In middle of doing appeal form.

He is currently needing 30.5 hours 1-2-1, LA state his needs can be met via local offer and teaching 🙃

Waiting to see if eligible for legal aid - anyone working this legal aid? Are you able to get private reports?

Hi everyone. Checking back in with some good news! DS has an EHCP. He has 28 "notional hours" of funded support which is more than anyone - including us - expected he would get. This would absolutely not have happened without advice I got here and elsewhere on SN/SEN boards. Thank you.

Less good news. The final steps of the process were an absolute muddle because the LA did not give us time to consult the draft before finalizing in order to meet statutory timelines, and because there is still no OT report (in fairness, our LA co-ordinator sounded irritated by this, too). So the wording needs work, though broadly the provision in F (other than the missing OT) I feel is appropriate. We have written assurances they will amend to include any comments they accept and the OT recommendations when they arrive, after which we'll get another 15 days to consult and offer amendments.

My gut feeling is that we will probably be far enough apart on the OT report that we may have to go to tribunal on this. Direct OT is something that I really think he needs, though I appreciate that his sensory needs aren't always visible because DS really tries to keep up, and because he's cognitively very able, so he sort of keeps up even when he misses half of what's going on - but beyond reception, I don't know if that will always be the case.

If it's useful for people to know, we used the SOSSEN draft checking service which was £100, and I think well worth it. Much of what they spotted we had noticed, but DH and I also work in professions where carefully and suspiciously reading is a core skill. They also had useful comments we had not considered.

@Sunshineclouds11 legal aid can fund independent assessments if they are necessary.

@BusMumsHoliday glad you have a finalised EHCP. You may want to formally complain about not being given time to make representations. Focus on the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F rather than funded notional hours. Personally, I wouldn’t let your right of appeal lapse. The LA’s word means nothing. They lie all the time. They may backtrack (conveniently after the right of appeal lapses) and force you to wait until the AR to amend.

@BusMumsHoliday it's progress definitely so well done!

Hi I just wanted to know if LA coniders ehcp draft amendments based parental representations as we used a external send advocate to help us with this and she did highlight a few points that we missed but mostly the draft was good but a few needs missed and outcomes were not very smart also the qualification of the TA weren't there any advice will be helpful.🙏

@Nweuht you can make representations, whether or not the LA listens and amends varies. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. It also depends on what the evidence is like. If the reports are poor, the EHCP will be too.

The reports are good and do identify his needs and provisions needed but the draft is specific and quantified it terms of ta qualifications and training level also some needs I have asked to be added from the assessment which where missed TBH our LA seems not that bad when it comes to ehcp but I would like a water tight ehcp which can be enforced which is what I highlighted to the case officer as well so let's see I hope they do make majority of the amendments and saves me going through tribunal as the wait times are horrendous if do does he still get the current ehcp and provision whilst I appeal the rest or he gets none and I wait a year or more for the appeal
TBH he could do with Salt and OT alongside a ta so his some of his needs get met rather than none as school seems quite supportive.

Are SALT and OT not detailed, specified and quantified in F?

During an appeal, the current EHCP remains in force until an amended EHCP is finalised.

Pre-action Protocol letter sent to LA for specific non-provision of a couple of aspects of (F) yesterday.

What might happen next?

Do many LA's fight?

Often the LA will concede and begin to arrange provision. Sometimes they will request a meeting with you. Unfortunately, sometimes they will ignore it until you chase. And in a minority of cases, they will ignore it completely and force you to take matters further.

Well, guess we will find out. Our LA has a bad reputation. Let's hope they do the sensible thing. It's all such a mockery of the law designed to protect the rights of children with SEND. Hope the present government find some way to end this nonsense.

Just had some questions about appealing section I. If the mainstream school has not yet said they can't meet need, is it worth/can you still appeal section I, if you feel needs may be better met in a special school?

The independent OT and SLT reports have evidence/recommendations for F that suggest a special school will be required. Verbally, the OT said to keep an open mind and consider both options. The SLT feels a specialist option will be best. Everyone I have spoken to in the LA is strongly advising mainstream of course.

If my preferred special school is out of area, would this preference still be considered alongside the two that are in our LA? In terms of distance, the two special schools that are in our LA are slightly further away than the one in the neighbouring LA. And I wouldn't be requesting transport for either of the three schools.

I have no concerns about the mainstream option at present but feel there is a local special school that may be a better fit. I'm going to view it next week so will ask more questions then.

If someone could guarantee that DD could start at a special school at the start of year 1 after completing reception in mainstream, then I would take this option. But as no such guarantee is possible, I'm worried about what will happen and how long it will take to get a special school if DD starts reception in mainstream.

She may manage in mainstream reception, but I don't see her making academic progress in the same way as her peers, as optimistic as I am. Y1 onwards she will definitely need special school, so is it best to just start reception in a special school?

@Ponche you can still appeal even if the MS thinks they can meet needs. This is actually the case is lots of appeals. It can happen for numerous reasons, including because the school sometimes gives in to pressure from the LA or they don’t understand DC’s needs.

Your preference being out of area doesn’t matter. What other schools the LA consults will be up to them. At some point, even if it is well into the appeal process, I would expect them to consult their own SS.

Don’t rule out wanting transport. Even if you don’t want the physical transport, you may want mileage. You also don’t know what the future holds.

Remember, the duty is for an appropriate school. Not necessarily the best possible provision in the best possible placement.

@BrightYellowTrain thanks a lot for explaining and that’s a really good point re transport.

‘the duty is for an appropriate school’ - this is what worries me, as what if you don’t like the special school the LA want to name.

@Ponche look at why you don’t like the LA’s proposed SS. What specifically about it/them do you not like? What do you like about the preferred school? I suspect when you dig down it is more than a ‘don’t like’. I suspect you think the schools the LA may propose are unsuitable in some way.

Alongside that, remember unless your preferred school is wholly independent, your preferred placement must be named unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
So you would look at why the LA refused. Looking for specifics rather than the vague arguments LAs often use. For example, a lot of the time LAs use full and say placement is incompatible without actually being able to show the high bar to prove incompatibility. It is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”.

@BrightYellowTrain thank you very much, that’s really useful information.

I’ve not yet heard anything about the phase transfer review/meeting and am going to bring this up today. Do the LA initiate/arrange this or the school? As I’m not sure who to first contact.

@Ponche contact both the LA and the current setting. The LA is ultimately responsible but for DC in a setting the setting undertakes some of the process e.g. inviting professionals.

Got the EP report - it notes that the EP advice needs to be supplemented by specialist advice in SALT and OT, which is going to be tricky for them as they haven't got any SALT or OT reports 🙂I have asked how they anticipate doing this without them. Will see if they reply! Any idea how long LAs usually take to get from EP report to decision? They are already over time, but given they are only waiting on medical report now, I am hoping we can move swiftly on to the next battle... for I know there will be another battle!

edit : typo....

how long

How long is a piece of string? The LA will take as much time as they think they can get away with and then some. If the LA is in breach of the statutory timescales, send IPSEA’s model letter now.

I have already complained about the timescales. They ignored that bit of my email to tell me that salt and ot weren't happening! Have moved to level 2 complaint.