SUPPORT THREAD Specifically for New Mums with "clingy" babies.

[PukeyRag]

(Sorry to use the word clingy, only one I could think of!)

So, there are so many threads on a daily basis with the same question -
"How do I get my DC to sleep on his/her own?"
New mums everywhere find that their DC will only sleep on them, and if they put them down, they'll only stay down for 10-15 mins or so, which is a nightmare, especially for those with babies who do the same at night, and makes you feel like punching the people who say "oh well, you should sleep when baby sleeps!"

This thread is to offer advice and support, techniques that have worked for others, and also for people to have a bit of a moan!

I hope more experienced mums will post the things that helped them, to help others.

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The Reason - ALL babies feel the need to be close to their caregiver, especially in the first few months of their life. It's not natural for them to sleep alone, as they don't yet realise that they're safe.
Their tiny bodies are experiencing so many new and strange things - sounds, sensations, feelings - they need you to be there every step of the way, and they don't care if you're tired to the point of seeing double, all they care about is being full and feeling your warmth and heart beat, which allows them to be calm and sleep soundly.
Bottom line is, we may be used to the modern world, but babies are not!

The Solution - In all brutal honesty, the only solution to this is time, but how do you get past this point of sleep deprivation/not getting things done?

Please read next post for my advice.

Yay I found the thread through blurry vision :)
I am so, so tired. Bad night. Need coffee. Baby won't let me put her down to go make said coffee. Baby too heavy to lug about on one arm when this tired. :(
Baby doing strange 'i'm going to chew on my hand when i'm feeding (Teething??) and then keep making myself jump and cry'

Don't have energy for this. How is everyone else doing?

Attempting to go to the loo in 1... 2... 3....

Oh boy, I feel I may have to depart this lovely thread as I'm turning into a bit of an imposter!
DD is still not sleeping brilliantly during the day, although 2 days ago had a big 2 1/2 hour sleep in her pram and car seat. However last night she did 11ish hours from 7pm until 6ish. She had a feed and has now gone to sleep on my chest.
I don't want to speak too soon as is the nature of babies things could be interesting again tonight.
However a few things I have done may help others - I bought an Ergo Cocoon swaddle, it is a bit like a sleeping bag with no arms, first night in it last night and straight through. I also have a lambskin lining her cot, very snuggly warm (although it is going under the sheet after last nights shuffling antics!) and makes it so easy to put her down and slide hand away.
She also has a hammock for day time naps and they are getting progressively longer too. I have really persevered with the day time napping, read Elizabeth Pantley's book last week. I wrote off pretty much the entire week last week to try and get her to nap.
Time may be another factor and I think her medicine for reflux might be finally kicking in.
Hope you all had good nights. Pukey did you get to the toilet OK?

Oh that is fantastic news Yoga :) Well done to your clever little DD! :)
It definitely sounds like things are on the up for you, and feel free to set sail from this thread any time, it can only be a good thing really!

I'm waiting for Pantley to come through my door any day now!

I did indeed, it seems silently begging her in my head to give me 20 minutes to get myself sorted works sigh, she was doing so well with the night time sleep and better with the naps but it's all gone backwards unfortunately. Ah well, such is life!

Yogamummy, well done that's fantastic! I've been trying to get daytime naps working so that nights will be better, but my DS seems to have got worse at that too. He's currently being rocked back to sleep by DH, I got him into his cot asleep but he woke after 40 minutes. Lately he just can't stay asleep for more than one sleep cycle at a time, although I think he's better during the night when he's in bed next to me (hard to say though because I don't wake up properly, just latch him on when he wakes up). It's really getting hard and tiring now, I would like him to sleep in the cot at least for the first few hours of the night so I get some better sleep and I think once he starts going longer between waking he'll stay in the cot longer. I just can't get him to sleep for more than about an hour at the most though. It would also be nice to have some time with DH in the evenings, at the moment I spend all evening putting DS to bed and then end up taking him to bed with me. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Going to bed now, goodnight everyone, hope we all get some sleep :)

Is the room hot, cold or noisy so when he passes from one sleep cycle to the next he's no comfortable enough to go back to sleep?

I'm really proud of DS as he managed to self-settle in his crib, through shyer laziness on our part, last night. I put him down, nice and sleepy, roll over and DH has an enormous sneezing fir which wakes DS but after a bit of babbling he settled right back down and slept 3 hours.

Fraktious- well done to your DS for self settling, that's brilliant. Our bedroom is fairly warm but I just dress DS in a sleepsuit with no vest, and use a lightweight sleeping bag, so I don't think it's the temperature. It's quiet too, the bedroom is a converted attic so in the evening me and DH are downstairs, a,d the bedroom is quiet. I'm not sure what is waking him, I think he must be sleeping very lightly and just waking on his own.

owainsmum - I don't really have any suggestions other than a co-sleeper cot?
As for day time naps, DD really isn't any better but i'm working on it. I got a baby bjorn babysitter today and she slept for nearly 2 hours in it I did have to jiggle her back to sleep a couple of times but definitely recommend it.

fraktious - Yes, well done to your DS, do you think he'll start to get the hang of it now? :)

As for me, Pantley showed up yesterday so have started reading that.
I also highly recommend the baby bjorn babysitter for anyone who hasn't got one, it's so sensitive and as I said, DD slept in it for nearly 2 hours this afternoon!
I also recommend the fisher price jumperoo, DD absolutely loves it! Keeps her entertained and the music doesn't do your head in!

PukeyRag- we co-sleep anyway when I go to bed, it's just that before then he won't stay asleep in the cot for more than an hour at the very most. I'm ever hopeful that he'll grow out of this phase and sleep better again. Until about 2 months ago I could get him in the cot and he would wake about 3 times in total between bedtime and morning, going back into the cot each time. Since then he has gradually got himself in bed with me earlier and earlier so that now he's there all night, and in general he doesn't sleep as well as he used to. Oh well, I'm sure he'll get better eventually :o

Ah I see, could you not for now have him sleep in whatever room you're in until bedtime?
Or try and work out what it is that you did to get him sleeping like that before?

Sorry, i'm being a bit useless I always go to bed with DD at 8pm so i'm not quite at that stage yet!

Babies change their routines so often, but he will get better eventually, definitely :)

Hi guys, I'm leaving you I am glad to report. DD has slept 7 - 7 the last 3 days now and has started napping ok during the day too. I am actually about to get her up for a bottle from her 3pm nap.
I highly recommend an Ergo Cocoon swaddle (she is wearing the 3 - 12 month size) you can get them from the baby sleep shop online, I also recommend an Amby hammock (try Gumtree or EBay as all baby sleeping on parts can be washed.)
I hope things stay like this for me and good luck to all of you.

yoga - absolutely fantastic, well done to the both of you :)
I really hope it stays that way for you, and if it doesn't, you're always welcome here. This definitely gives me hope :)

(have ordered an ergococoon already ha)

I have been lurking on tis thread - basic background that dd is 4 weeks old, would only sleep on me or my husband, sometimes going all day with just 15 mins cat naps..

I have been a baby marketers dream! So far we have a Moses basket, cot bed with side off attached to our bed, raised playpen downstairs with mobile and toys to distract her to sleep, wraps, slings, carriers, pram, grobags, swaddle blankets - amby hammock was next on the list..

But I read this thread on Friday and thought I might try the ergo cocoon. She hates being swaddled as needs her hands to touch her face and can houdini out of them in seconds no matter how tightly wrapped.

Anyway, I got the cocoon yesterday on 1 day delivery from amazon and she just slept the whole of last night in her basket at 3-4 hour stretches! The most she has ever done before was an hour and only once..I don't know if this is the magic solution but £30 for even one night of sleep is a bargain to me! She had one arm out and the other zipped in but undone a little so she could touch her face.. Please let this continue!!

I don't know what to do with myself now in a none sleep deprived state..

I've just had a look at Amby hammocks, they look fab and I'm thinking of getting one. The gentle movement may be just what DS needs to get him past each sleep cycle. The only question I have is how easy is it to get an asleep baby into it, from the picture it looks like the baby has to be manouevred in at an angle. We're not good at self settling yet so I almost always put DS down asleep.

I worried about that too but I don't find it too hard and as you are putting the baby into a moving object my LO doesn't really seem to notice the transition. Remarkably she will also re-settle in the hammock if I bounce it up and down. I would recommend getting the snuggle too, I think it makes my LO feel like she is being cuddled. She is a big girl too and it still works for her.

Should get the ergococoon tomorrow so we'll see what happens, sounds promising though :)

Re amby hammock, I just can't afford one at the moment but the baby bjorn babysitter is brilliant, she loves it.

Well Ive just collected an amby hammock that I got second hand on gum tree, I was really lucky, had a look on there yesterday and there was one really close so I didn't even have to travel very far. I'm going to wash it before I use it so should be ready to go tomorrow. Fingers crossed DS sleeps better in it :)
He's really angry at the moment, slept in the car when we wet out but woke up when the car stopped, then cried all the way home. He needed a longer nap really so I'm trying to feed him to sleep on my lap now but it's not working...

Anyway, I'll let you know how it goes with the hammock, PukeyRag- the babysitter looks great, and hope the coccoon works for you

Just marking my place as am too tired to read/post properly atm.

Ds is 8 days old and really doesn't like being asleep, he will only ever doze/sleep on me and as soon as i put him down starts screaming. Since he was born I have averaged 2 hours of sleep in 20 minute slots a night, I am exhausted and so is he.

Will be back to read through the thread.

Prisoner- welcome and congrats on your little DS! I know it's really hard now but it will get better fairly quickly. Is your DS waking for feeds very frequently? Mine did when he was tiny, and would take ages to feed, so the gaps between feeds weren't very long. Can you get nice and cosy on the sofa or bed and doze while you feed him? Also have you tried putting him in a sling? That way he can sleep nice and snuggled up to you but you have the opportunity to make yourself lunch, get a few things done etc.

Anyway, re the hammock, DS had a 30 minute nap in it this morning :) He was getting tired so I put him in but he wasn't happy, so I moved it next to the bed, then I sat on the edge of the bed with the hammock containing DS on my lap, and fed him to sleep. Once asleep I gently extracted myself, he stirred a couple of times but I gently rocked him to sleep, and he lasted 30 minutes! I think it helped a bit that I put the pyjama top that I had been wearing under him so he had the familiar smell, but so far so good anyway.

I might try another nap in there later, but will keep you all updated anyway. Time for a now, anyone else want one?

Hello, can I join please? I have a clingy 19 week old DS who is driving me insane. Overnight we co-sleep and waking is anything from 1-3 times usually. I don't mind that too much.

But the daytime is really the problem. He will not sleep unless he is on me. At all. Ever. And I am pinned to the sofa for a ridiculous amount of the time.

I used to sling him in a woven wrap but he's far too big to carry for long on my front now (he was 18lb at 12 weeks EBF, not weighed since but well into the 20s I'd guess) and even after watching a million youtube videos I can't get him on my back.

We have an Amby too - bought before he was born as DD was also a limpet so I was determined to be prepared, but he won't go to sleep in it. If I transfer him he wakes instantly even if wrapped in a blanket. Started cosleeping after the first 2 weeks of sleepless nights trying to get him to settle. He won't sleep on DH at all, or even sit on his knee for more than a few minutes in the evening, although will stay with DH awake for longer during the day.

He can manage maybe 10-15 mins max on his playmat, usually less and I'm slowly forgetting what the real world looks like. I'm trapped in a cycle of feeding, being a mattress and trying to do things 1 handed/in 5 minute bursts. I'm a mess, the house is a mess, and in the few minutes I'm not attached to DS my 7 year old DD sneaks in for her cuddle time (poor DH doesn't even get a look in)

Come evening time and I'm often in bed by 9pm as if I leave him alone in the bedroom he's awake within 10-20 mins without fail. I've tried leaving the tv on really low, nightlight, monitor with "talk back" thingy for shushing but they don't work. It's like he has a proximity alarm for me getting too far away.

I don't know anyone IRL with a clingy baby. It's nice to know it's not just me (even though it means you're struggling too!)

Prisonerzero, I was in your same position just a couple of weeks ago - still am to some extent but it gets better! I didn't believe it would and got myself and dd stressed by constantly trying and thinking something was wrong with her. She since Saturday has settled in her basket at night but will not go in it during the day. Up until now, she would only nap on me during the day in cat naps. I wish now that I hadn't tried to force her and just accepted what people told me that it gets better!

Anyway, here is what I tried that didn't work:

Cot bed next to bed with side down
Moses basket
Swaddling
Babybjorn babysitter
Carseat rocked
Pram (not moving)
Warmed and mummy smelling blanket
Getting her to sleep on Moses basket mattress while feeding lying down then transferring to basket
Dummy (won't take it)
Co sleeping (apart from her physically being cuddled)
Sling

Here's what worked with (some mixed) success:

Time
Time
Time
Prepare to be awake all night - if you expect it, it's not as bad
Baby born walks
Ergo cocoon (see above) but only when she was fast asleep so she coouldn't protest too much
Hairdryer white noise played for half an hour
Bath, dark room, feed, bed routine
Dh taking her after her big night feed at 9.30 till 12.30 so he could get a decent night and I could bank at least 3 hours proper sleep (we never tried to put her down during this time to make sure she slept as long as possible
Trying her in her basket after the long sleep so she got used to waking up in the basket (until Saturday she never stayed asleep for more than a couple of mins)
Rolled up blanket round edge of Moses basket to make it feel cosier
Pram walking but with rain cover on to keep wind off and so she could see what was going on
Accepting day time naps on me to try and maximize night sleep (we figured out she gets too tired to sleep)
Also just got back from cranial osteopath and she has been asleep for 2 hours in non moving pram - unheard of!

Waiting half an hour before trying to put her down then watching what was waking her up (terrible startle reflex)

I nearly cried 2 weeks after she wad born and went round to a friends to see her casually putting her newborn baby into his basket happily for a sleep!

Next on the list was the an amby hammock - still quite tempted!

Hello all, and welcome newbies :)

owainsmum - I'll take you up on that brew! Congrats on the 30 minute nap! Definitely think the top would have helped!

Think I will do what Bubandbump has done and put a list of all the things that have and haven't worked for me.

Things that haven't worked -
Putting her down.
Moses basket
Carseat
Slumber Bear
Dreamrocker*
Dummy
Pushchair moving or still*
Putting her down before 15-30 mins of her falling asleep*
Massage (although she does enjoy it)
Self settling
Shush/pat

*Has worked a few times but not enough to say it actually 'works'

Things that have worked (Mainly for day time naps - 30mins at a time is considered good napping to me)
Time!!!
Co-sleeping
Having the cot up against the bed (this is what we do now)
Good day time naps
Bed time routine - Story, bath, feed, making it quiet and dim around an hour before sleep
Lots of background noise in the day
A rolled up blanket and pillow (with a sheet over the top of all of it to form a nest) to make it cosy (I stopped doing this about a month ago as I wanted her to be able to stretch out and get used to sleeping flat
The car
The sling!!
Sleeping outside
Trampoline (Holding whilst standing and very gently bouncing)
Baby bjorn babysitter
Ergococoon(!)

I've probably missed some things but will definitely mention them if I remember!

bitingfairy - I feel for you, I really do. :( You are not the only one! There are hundreds of us, which is a shame, but comforting.
I hope you can find some useful tips on this thread and feel free to moan at us

So,
I have read my way through The No Cry Sleep Solution and she has a lot of good ideas.
I thought "Before I try any I have to master the day time naps" So I have been trying to get her to sleep as much as possible in the day but it's proving very difficult still. (Its also really hard to keep logs of the sleep she has in the day!)
So here I am thinking "I will never get her sleeping properly" and worrying about everything. The most i've been getting her to nap in the day is about 5 hours and that has resulted in about 8 hours a night but with 2 main wakings and lots of little ones and she went from a 5 hour stretch at the beginning of the night to only 3 hours.

Yesterday we were out for the day shopping and she didn't sleep much, she ended up extremely overtired and by the evening was screaming and I thought she wasn't going to sleep well at all :( I gave her to DP and he wrapped her up and took her on to the trampoline (this has ALWAYS worked a treat) and she was asleep in 2 minutes. So I took her up to bed, (at 8:30) put her in the ergococoon, and she slept for 9 hours straight through, no wakings :)
I woke once in a panic (not used to so much sleep!) to discover she had wriggled (or rolled, as she learned this 2 days ago) her way round so that she was sideways in her cot but was still fast asleep and on her back so I left her like that, and the next thing I knew it was light outside!
So we got up at 5:30 and she had a feed etc. and by half past 6 was asleep again. So I held her for 20 minutes and put her in the babysitter. She slept there untill half past 7

I am utterly shocked she has done so well, but I don't want to speak too soon so i'm going to see how the next couple of weeks go. I'm convinced it was the ergococoon but only time will tell.

So I think that's everything, how is everyone else doing?

Hi ladies, I'm still lurking in the background as it's such a lovely wee thread. I'm glad there has been some degree of success with the Ergo cocoon and the Amby.
I didn't put my LO in her Ergo the night before last and we were back to square one, so the cocoon def works for us. We had a great 9 hour night last night.
Wishing you all happy snoozy days.

PukeyRag- well done to your DD sleeping 9 hours, that's fantastic! You must feel much better today after such a good night.
We had a pretty good night, although I wasn't expecting good things as I think DS might be starting teething, he had jabs yesterday, and he bumped his head, so a lot of yesterday was spent crying (DS, not me :o) Anyway, I got him asleep in the hammock at 8pm, and he stayed asleep for nearly an hour and a half (a big improvement on the usual 10-45 mins), then I resettled him quickly but he woke again, so I settled him again and made sure he was completely asleep before I left the room. He didn't wake when I went to bed, but this time managed a 2.5 hour stretch. At that point I took him into bed with me for the rest of the night although I knew I should try to keep him in the hammock, but I was half asleep and feeling lazy. So we did very well last night, and tonight I'm going to try to keep him in the hammock when he wakes (I promise!). DS has got into the habit of co-sleeping and doing lots of comfort sucking, so the more time he spends asleep on his own the better. If he gets used to not being next to me hopefully he'll stop waking to suck.
Bitingfairy- I don't know anyone in RL with a clingy baby either, but I think they must all be lying :o

owainsmum - Did you manage to keep him in the hammock last night? :)

Come to think of it, I don't know anyone in RL with a clingy baby either! Hmmm no doubt they're lying! It's nothing to be ashamed of so I don't understand why people lie about it!

Well, yesterday was a "I am still in my pj's at 2pm" day, as she wouldn't be put down for more than 10mins apart from the 2x hour naps she had in the babysitter.
Last night was the same as ever, no 9 hour stretch for us :( Wasn't too bad though, about 7-8 hours with a few wakings, (didn't bother looking at the time once!) she was very hungry all night. I think she's going to be an early eater!
She was fine in the ergococoon to begin with but by the middle of the night it was just winding her up as she has a habit of sucking her hands.

I don't understand this day time naps stuff, or at least can't seem to get the hang of it, she usually sleeps longer at night if she doesn't sleep a lot in the day. :( Feeling a bit lost at the moment!