SUPPORT THREAD Specifically for New Mums with "clingy" babies.

[PukeyRag]

(Sorry to use the word clingy, only one I could think of!)

So, there are so many threads on a daily basis with the same question -
"How do I get my DC to sleep on his/her own?"
New mums everywhere find that their DC will only sleep on them, and if they put them down, they'll only stay down for 10-15 mins or so, which is a nightmare, especially for those with babies who do the same at night, and makes you feel like punching the people who say "oh well, you should sleep when baby sleeps!"

This thread is to offer advice and support, techniques that have worked for others, and also for people to have a bit of a moan!

I hope more experienced mums will post the things that helped them, to help others.

• - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  

The Reason - ALL babies feel the need to be close to their caregiver, especially in the first few months of their life. It's not natural for them to sleep alone, as they don't yet realise that they're safe.
Their tiny bodies are experiencing so many new and strange things - sounds, sensations, feelings - they need you to be there every step of the way, and they don't care if you're tired to the point of seeing double, all they care about is being full and feeling your warmth and heart beat, which allows them to be calm and sleep soundly.
Bottom line is, we may be used to the modern world, but babies are not!

The Solution - In all brutal honesty, the only solution to this is time, but how do you get past this point of sleep deprivation/not getting things done?

Please read next post for my advice.

[boobsaclock]

Swing? Hahahahaha. These are for people with normal babies, not my child 😂

[user1480952686]

thank you have done x

[FATEdestiny]

This is a Zombie Thead.

You would be better starting a new thread with your problem on the Sleep board:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep

[user1480952686]

Hi guys. I hope there are still some active people on here?
My baby girl is 18 weeks old. She has had so many bugs since being born that unfortunately we have gotten into a few bad habits/accidental parenting which we need to break! And i need help!!!
She will play on her own in the day and we have no problem putting on her play mat/bouncer etc to entertain her.
At night she sleeps fine, goes down 7.30/8pm after a bottle and wakes every 3 hours for feeds. wakes around 6-6.30AM - Id love her to sleep through but ill take this! haha.
we did recently start swaddling her at night - once she discovered her hands as she kept pulling her dummy out and screaming for it every few minutes - nightmare! also she does still startle herself and wake herself up!
our problem is NAPS!!!!! She will only nap for 30 minutes at a time! - pretty much to the minute!!!! questions:
a) we don't swaddle at nap time as don't want her to get confused with day/night - do you think we should do?
b) how can we get her to nap longer - help her transition through to deep sleep
c) how do we get her to self soothe to sleep so we can stop the frantic rocking, bum patio and shh-ing
d) do we get her to extend her naps first ((tackle problem 1) and THEN tackle the self soothing - or vise vera??
we know she isbn getting enough sleep as she currently has 30 minutes (max) about 3-4 times a day, and she wakes up still tired but too awake to go back to sleep
sorry for all the questions, i hope someone can give me some helpful tips.....

[hellitops]

I've just written a long post for this...and then MN decided to log me out and lost it for some reason and now I can't remember what I said.

looby My ds outgrew his moses basket at 10 weeks and was in his cot in his own room then. It worked for him though as within a week he was getting 8-10hours a night :)

Could your LO have developed sleep associations, so he feels the need to have the bottle/breast in his mouth to go to sleep and so needs it if he wakes up? I've worked on my lo's a little and he now goes off regularly in my arms with his dummy and his rabbit. If I'm in a different room to his bedroom where the ipod is or somewhere else, I've started humming to soothe him and so he knows it's sleep time (started this in the hospital, and it seems to have worked). At night when he's ready for bed he even seems to ask for the dummy and immediately starts going to sleep once he has it :) If you don't want to use a dummy, I know some mum's let them suck on a muslin cloth.

Because his birthmark is causing him pain, and it's worse at the moment thanks to the ulceration, I've noticed an increase in 'clingy' behaivour but this is understandable. It also means that despite a full tummy he doesn't always let you put him down in his cot.

The pain when feeding is more than likely from the ulceration and the friction from sucking on the teats, but a small part of it may be from the CMPI which I think can cause pain when feeding too. We got readmitted again on Monday and released on Wednesday and I'm now trained to feed him down his NG (nasal-gastric) tube, which we are using to top his feeds up so he gets the right amount. This must be working as he has gained 7oz this week :)

I think the next big growth spurt is at 4 months

[LoobyLou33]

Hi everyone, it's gone quite quiet on here...I've been away at my parents so not had much time to post. The idea was, they would take DS off for walks etc and give us a break but he's gradually become very clingy in the last 3 weeks and now refuses to be held by anyone apary from me or DH!! Argh! My poor mum felt very rejected but he's the same with everyone. Has anyone else experienced this?

His sleeping was fine for the first two days then went out the window...he'd been going for 3-5 hours on the first sleep (at about 9pm) then a few further batches of 2 hours either back in the basket or with us in bed. Now he only lasts 2 hours at any sitting and is much more restless, fidgeting a lot and rubbing/hitting his face.

He is now 3 months so it could be a growth spurt, but it seems to me he isn't always waking up rabidly hungry so much as fidgeting himself awake and then feeding being the only thing to send him back off. He was slightly better on coming home last night so I'm hoping he'll settle back, otherwise our "holiday" will somewhat have backfired!

hellitops I'm sorry you've had trouble with feeding and had to go to hospital. good that the new teats are working though. Are you any closer to working out why he refused feeds? cool about the mobile though - 30 mins is still pretty good for a nap. Hey I mean any time they send themselves off to sleep is good news on this thread!!

fififrog you said you'd be calling the sleep consultants by now if no improvements...so have you or have things settled down? Is she still waking 3-4 times per night? That is exhausting. It sounds like her cot's in another room: do you have the option of putting it in your bedroom? If she sleeps well in your bed perhaps she'd sleep OK in her cot if it's in your room?

I'm just starting to wonder if we can haul the cot into our bedroom once he grows out of the moses basket. How old are they (roughly) when they get too big for the basket? I'm dreading the transition but you never know, he may be way happier in a bigger bed and different room...but I'm not optimistic!

any news from owainsmum?

[hellitops]

hello again we got readmitted yesterday as they weren't happy with his feeding, went down again, and he ended up being in overnight. DP and I had to leave him with the nurses as we were knackered (I went 22 hours from around 1am to 11pm with only a short nap 5-6am :( )but they had no trouble with him. We have been using the hospital orthopaedic teats today and they seem to be working so much better. Today he has been having 7oz feeds woo! We are thinking of weaning early as this should help reduce his need to drink quite so much from a bottle, reducing the amount of discomfort. This is especially important as the drug to shrink his birthmark can have an effect on blood sugar. I am going to the gp next week to ask about CMPI as it appears he may have that and not reflux.

this past month ds has not had trouble sleeping at night (except this week but that's understandable), despite any lack or trouble during the day. The lack of food has an impact on his sleep which makes him fussy and irritable.

he has just impressed me though. I put him in his cot so I could turn the ipod on and as he seemed content I gave him his toy and put the mobile on, expecting him to start crying sooner or later. Put the mobile on in total three times, looked when it stopped again and he was pretty much asleep, left him for a few more minutes and he went off completely no trouble shame it only lasted 30mins though.

Good luck tonight everyone, hope you all get a good night, especially you fififrog have you tried lullabies?

[hellitops]

hello everyone, not been on in a while as we've been having fun (not!). Ended up overnight in hospital Tuesday-Wednesday this week due to refusing feeds. His birthmark started ulcerating but thankfully we now have a cream for that and some drugs to try and start the process of shrinking the birthmark. Looks like HVs gave us the wrong advice in just waiting :(

A lot of his 'clingyness' seems to stem from how much he has eaten, though i'm sure that's the same for most people. The two blessed weeks we had where he had 5/6oz feeds all day were brilliant, he started self-settling and having bigger naps (similar to two days when gaviscon worked) and I had a generally very happy baby. His feeds are back down again though and up goes time needing to be in mum's arms, though he doesn't sleep as well there. We've had about 3-4 weeks of sleeping all the way through at night (8,9 or 10 hours, depending on bed time) but that's started to change with him waking up again for a feed. I guess this could be growth spurt related though. He will not self-settle or have good naps or go down in cot, etc, when not eating enough and having bad days and the drug for his birthmark has a side-affect of sleep disruption, which I'm hoping he doesn't get as I don't know what we'll do.

We're going back to the hospital tomorrow as part of his drug therapy and I'm going to ask if other things could be causing his difficulties, like CMPI or dysphagia or something, especially as he has really painful farts that make him cry and miserable :(

pukey I checked with the hospital when we were there, and they say that roughly he should be having around 30ozs a day, according to his weight, which would explain why he was very happy on 25-28 and is not happy on 18-22

Hope everyone has a good night

[fififrog]

Tried rice yesterday but think she still has Tongue thrust reflex as it just came out... Min you, tastes pretty foul to my mind, I'm sure apple would be nicer if I could be arsed!

I can't see any correlation with sleep and naps, except when naps are truly dire then sleep defo worse. Last week she napped brillinatly all week: about 1.5 hours 8-9.30 then 11.30-12, 2-2.30, 4-4.30 or thereabouts and some night's were bad some ok.

I am trying to implement new plan: no food before midnight (feeding then much better, plus suggestion to adjust position from bf peer suppoorter seems to have helped) kind of the opposite of gremlins! and trying to settle he in cot just by rubbing tummy as my back is breaking otherwise. If it doesn't take after a week I'm phoning the sleep consultants.

Fingers crossed all!

[PukeyRag]

fifi - That's a shame, but the rice might help. DD is 19 weeks and i've been giving her rice, it does make her happier but I don't think it makes her sleep any better :(
I can't answer why unfortunately, aside from the lack of sleep in the day.
Usually I find with DD that if she goes to sleep every two hours (from previous nap) she sleeps brilliantly, but this only happens if she has a good morning nap!
In fact yesterday she barely slept all day and was up and down all night so it's very touch and go!

How often does she nap in the day?

[fififrog]

No, I can't abide expressing, and unfortunately she won't take a bottle. I went to a breastfeeding support group today and the peer supporter agreed she didn't look like she's interested in feeding much. She's 18 weeks tomorrow - how time flies - and I'm going to start giving her a tiny bit of rice, see if the extra bulk just chills her out a bit and makes feeding better.

Tonight is off to a bad start. She has been asleep 45, I resettled her when she awoke on her tummy (again...) but she reawoke and is now screaming her head off. Why? Why why why???? Poor DH is ill but manfully trying to deal with her!

She also refused to nap again today except for 1.5 hrs on my chest then transferred to pushchair to take her for jabs. What a nightmare.

[PukeyRag]

fifi - have you tried using a breast pump to increase your supply? Also, if you express, you could try giving her a bottle in the night which might fill her up faster and get her off to sleep.

looby - oh yes, I know exactly what you mean about missing the evenings, although it's 7 every night for us!
Don't you worry, i'm not going to completely abandon you all - will definitely come back :)

So i'm getting there - DD is napping every 2 hours now for about an hour - 2 hours. Yesterday she slept so much (all in the babysitter) and only woke up twice last night to eat briefly so i'm very pleased. Although usually that will happen and then the next day and night is awful - but i've just got her to sleep now on cue (were up at ten past six) so fingers crossed :)

I really do recommend the baby bjorn babysitter, there's no way my DD would be napping like this without it, and her naps improved the day it arrived!

[fififrog]

Much the same here as well... though I have a horrible cold so am sleeping very poorly in between 3-4 wakings a night. I just don't understand why it is so impossible to get her back to sleep in the night. Not even in our arms. DH sat with her asleep for 20 mins on his lap the other night, put her gently in the cot and Ping! AWAKE... and screaming :-( If I feed her it is generally ok, though about once a night it doesn't go so well and I need to go back in.

I think I have some milk supply issues. Tried posting on thread on mumsnet but those who replied didn't seem to get what I'm driving at. Maybe you lot will understand - some days I feel really "full" and she seems satisfied, other days I feel less full, and the first part of the feed where she goes suck-swallow-suck-swallow as opposed to suck-suck-suck-suck-swallow lasts less long. During the day she often cries at these times and at night is harder to settle, but she doesn't ever want to feed for longer. As I understand it, it's "supply and demand" so you think she'd want to suck for longer to increase supply. I might give her some rice soon, I'm almost at the end of my tether being cried at, chewed, and clawed by her tiny talons!

Still no progress on the rolling.

Lou she generally wakes after 6am not 5, so I don't have too much problem with that. If I feed her at 5 I do worry she won't resettle though... THis week she's been sleeping a bit later - because I'm knackered I go hoik her out of bed and have her in with me (DH has moved into spare room) and she's been sleeping til 7 or 7.30. This is the one bonus of the last week!

Naps still good, and remarkably consistent this week - 1x 1.5 hours, 3x 30 mins at almost exactly the same times of day. Could she actually be developing a routine??!

Does this post belong here or on the sleep regression thread??!

Good luck for tonight all!

[LoobyLou33]

Hi all, what a lovely sunny day! I was moaning to DH last night that we're entirely missing the summer evenings because from 8pm we draw the curtains and start working towards bedtime!

pukey you deserve to graduate from this thread after all your good advice and also all you've been through! If you do leave, please pop back to let us know how you're getting on!

fifi it sounds like you're having a bit of a bummer at the moment...is DD still generally awake from 5am? Argh! How was the next night after the total meltdown, did she sleep? At least it sounds like her daytime naps are improving though I totally understand about wishing they lasted longer. you're obviously working very hard to get her off to sleep - my workout involves slinging him (if he'll go in - often resists), walking round the block then swaying + singing him off to sleep. Then I recline on the bed and he sleeps on my chest - he'll soon be too big though!

What are everyone's babies like when they're awake? fifi you said DD wakes up happy, but in my case DS is generally grisly for 70% of his waking time. It does vary and yesterday he was really well behaved (for visitors too! ) but last Weds I was exhausted. He had 3 x 45 min naps all day and needed placating almost the entire rest of it. Not only does he need to be held to stop crying but also demands perpetual motion. Groan...I'm not fit enough...

owainsmum great that you had a good time away and DS was good - what a relief! It sounds like you're making some good progress, fantastic that he's settling back to sleep sometimes. We're going to stay at my parents from Thursday, first stay away [nervous emoticon] - taking our moses basket so I'm hoping that will keep him settled.

[PukeyRag]

Well, 4 days and no posts, is this good or bad?

DD is much the same, although today she has slept so much, and in her babysitter too so i'm very pleased about that. I think I may be leaving this thread for good soon as she seems to be able to nap on her own rather well now :) (although still very clingy when awake!)

How is everyone else??

[fififrog]

I honestly don't know! Like I said, last week I had 30 mins of screaming each nap and mostly had her in my arms. But my technique is when she's been awake 85-90 mins I take her upstairs, close the curtains, cuddle her and maybe sing til she goes quiet and stops wriggling and/or yawns, then plonk her on the bed. I then pin her arms down with my hands and shush her while she protests, then lie next to her with my hand on her belly til she drops off. I stay lying next to her so I can shush her some more if she stirs and try to get her past 45 mins, which usually fails these days but I will keeptrying!

She's 17 weeks now and I've been doing this since she was about 13 weeks minus the odd day (and last week) when she won't have it. I just tried it one day when my arms were particularly knackered and it seemed to work. I'd previously been cuddling her to sleep and trying to transfer her to her cot with a spectacular lack of success, and I'm not really sure I can be bothered to try again - it's a good excuse to have a rest!

[hellitops]

fififrog that's sounds great, go you!! What's your secret??? DS regularly only sleeps 30-45mins so I know what you mean, however he often wakes crying...

[fififrog]

Wanted to reinstate some faith, not that anyone seems to have been too troubled by my last post, but things have been way better today after the worst night ever last night when she was way overtired and barely slept at all.

Today she had three naps on the bed again with only minor tears, one in the pushchair and just settled her for the night with no tears! Hoping for a decent night tonight - it couldn't possibly be worse but I really need some decent sleep. Daytime naps are now very short 30-45 mins, I wish she'd sleep longer but she doesn't seem to want to, she wakes up happy so I can't complain too much.

Fingers crossed we've ridden the wave and now we're back to normal...

[owainsmum]

Hi everyone, and welcome to all the new members :) it seems like ages since I was on here, but we have been away visiting family. DS was very good and I managed to get him to have naps in the hammock or put him down asleep on the bed, which was better than he usually is at home. Bedtimes were a lot worse though, I think because of all the excitement during the days with all the visiting different people and going to lots of places, he was over stimulated by the end of the day and wouldn't settle. He ended up going to bed late most nights, but was fine once I got into bed with him. He is starting to show signs of learning to self settle now, when he stirs in his sleep he will often open his eyes then drift off again on his own, although a lot of the time he still wakes a few minutes later, but I think it's a good start and a sign that he might be starting to get the hang of it. I think it will be a gradual process anyway, and now that we're back home I'm going to try hard with the daytime naps to get him either in the hammock or cot, and go back to the NCSS to encourage self settling at bedtime.
Pukey- that's great news about your DD self settling, maybe this will be a turning point for you now that she can do it and her nighttime sleep will improve.

Anyway, got to go, DS was asleep on me but has now woken up and wants to press all the buttons on the keyboard!
Good luck to everyone for naps and bedtime :)

[hellitops]

hi pukey will try and get a groeeg then, sounds great.

He ended up having 18/19oz yesterday in total, but I'm not sure that still isn't a bit low but will see if his feeds go up now he's on infant gaviscon with the normal infant milk (think comfort milk + gaviscon was too thick so he struggled and kept falling asleep on the bottle).

i'd almost forgotten how tiring it was to take 2 hours to get him settled in bed and going to bed around 11 instead of 9 :( thank goodness he continues to sleep through the night. Hope today is a bit better

[PukeyRag]

helli - the groegg is great, especially when you're really tired and everything's a blur, you don't have to squint and make out the reading - you just look at it and the colour it glows tells you wether you need to warm up or cool down :) I think it's excellent.
As for only having 9oz, i'm sure he'll make up for it tonight or tomorrow :)

jen - Well done on the night before last, at least you know he's capable of sleeping for longer stretches!
I hope you have more success with the moses basket than I did - after three months of trying to get her used to it I gave up - it's now full of clothes and looking rather neglected! (she much prefers her cot)

Looby - Definitely a breakthrough although, much the same as you, it was a one off! I've tried putting her down numerous times today in the hope that she might self settle but no such luck!

Sorry to hear about the feeding, DD's doing the same thing with the bottle - I have no idea why :(
Fab that your DS went down while your friend was looking after him - my DD won't even eat for anyone else, let alone go to sleep and stay asleep! You must be so pleased.

I also think that living in a restaurant would be great it was the noise/car journey that helped him to sleep.


As i've said everyone, it's time that works the best and i've definitely seen improvement with my DD since I started this thread (it's over a month old now) and with some of your DC, too. Let's hope it carries on, eh? :)

[hellitops]

We've had a strange day today. He fell asleep on the bottle at the end of his first morning feed and i managed to put him next to me on the sofa. He slept for 40mins. When it came for his second nap we struggled. He eventually calmed down in the pram and hell asleep on the way back from the doctors but only managed 30mins. Due to only taking one oz since then he has struggled to sleep and will only sleep in my arms but he doesn't sleep well In my arms, lots of fidgeting and moving :-( he refused a bottle in favour of sleep but I'm worried about putting him down and waking him up when he's obviously wanting sleep but Im a bit worried he's only had 9oz today :-(

[LoobyLou33]

Hi all and welcome jeewiz and hellitops, nice to meet you! Haven't posted for ages as we've been having feeding nightmares, (still are to an extent) and I usually do MN while feeding! DS is in usual place sleeping on me on th feeding cushion and looks absolutely angelic

pukey fab news on the nap front! Both the babysitter and then sending herself off - WOW. What a breakthrough that's fantastic for you. Has it given you chance to get some more rest yourself? My sympathies with your feeding problems - not quite the same but DS had been fussing on or even refusing the breast which has been sooo stressful.

We've had some weird one-offs lately. Last week I had to move him off me after he'd already been asleep an hour (or longer - suckled to sleep and I never know when he's actually drifted off!) so i put him in the moses basket in the lounge. He stayed asleep for half an hour!! Then a friend was looking after him that afternoon and put him in it when he'd fallen asleep again, and once again he stayed sleeping.

Sadly - it hasn't happened since!!! obviously we have tried...no rhyme or reason.

Also on Sat we were at a big family do masses of hubub and chatter and he fell asleep on DH's lap with NO MOTION . we then moved him into car seat and he stayed sleeping. I put it down to the long car journey (his first) and the sheer noise. DH says we'll just have to live in a restaurant

jeewizz glad you're getting a bit more sleep yourself and he's going into his basket at night. i think at that age they feed so often you don't get very long. that will improve! One thing I've found with DS is that when I stopped trying to keep putting him down after he'd fallen asleep (only for him to inevitably wake back up and cry), but just let him sleep as long as he wanted to on me (in the daytime), things got a lot eaiser. Sure I can't sleep myself or do anything other than read/computer but at least he is getting more sleep and is less grouchy! And I don't have to placate him till the next feed. That's worked for me but see what you think -if your DS will go down with some coaxing that's definitely worth pursuing!!

[JeewizzJen]

Thanks all for the comments :) We had a fairly good night, night before last - I managed to get him down in his moses basket for an hour between each feed which at least gave me some sleep, albeit pretty broken. I decided to try using a hot water bottle to warm it before putting him don 30 mins after he falls asleep. Seemed to work ok.

Last night, not so good, no more than 30 mins before he awoke, but he seems really hungry so I guess it might just be a growth spurt. He's just fallen asleep on me now after 3 hours of almost continuous feeding! I'm going to try putting him down in a few mins. It's difficult though, as part of me just wants to let him sleep (assuming he wakes up if i put him down!), but part of me knows I should at least try to get him used to his moses basket...

[hellitops]

jen pukey is right. my future sister-in-law and other family members co-sleeps often for daytime naps with my two nieces and this has caused no problems. Sometimes one or the other ends in their bed too but often they sleep through in their cot/bed at night. It just doesn't work for DS and I; go with what works for you.

pukey groegg thermometer, are these good room temp monitors and would you recommend them? I have one on the wall on his bedroom (one of those cheap winnie the pooh ones from mothercare) but nothing for when in the living room :(

as for how we're doing, today has been interesting. He slept very little during most of the day poor thing but broke pattern by staying asleep in his car seat for nearly two hours when we came back from future MIL's (normally wakes up within 10mins of getting home) and he put himself off to sleep in the swing while watching top gear tonight :)