SUPPORT THREAD Specifically for New Mums with "clingy" babies.

[PukeyRag]

(Sorry to use the word clingy, only one I could think of!)

So, there are so many threads on a daily basis with the same question -
"How do I get my DC to sleep on his/her own?"
New mums everywhere find that their DC will only sleep on them, and if they put them down, they'll only stay down for 10-15 mins or so, which is a nightmare, especially for those with babies who do the same at night, and makes you feel like punching the people who say "oh well, you should sleep when baby sleeps!"

This thread is to offer advice and support, techniques that have worked for others, and also for people to have a bit of a moan!

I hope more experienced mums will post the things that helped them, to help others.

• - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  

The Reason - ALL babies feel the need to be close to their caregiver, especially in the first few months of their life. It's not natural for them to sleep alone, as they don't yet realise that they're safe.
Their tiny bodies are experiencing so many new and strange things - sounds, sensations, feelings - they need you to be there every step of the way, and they don't care if you're tired to the point of seeing double, all they care about is being full and feeling your warmth and heart beat, which allows them to be calm and sleep soundly.
Bottom line is, we may be used to the modern world, but babies are not!

The Solution - In all brutal honesty, the only solution to this is time, but how do you get past this point of sleep deprivation/not getting things done?

Please read next post for my advice.

[owainsmum]

We didn't do too badly last night, DS slept in the hammock from 8-9pm, I resettled him and he then did another 2 hours. After a feed he woke up a bit but I managed to rock him back to sleep (in the hammock) and he slept til 2.15. I tried to feed him back to sleep when rocking didn't work, but ended up taking him into bed with me then. The annoying thing is I went to bed fairly early but couldn't get to sleep so ended up lying in bed listening to DS snoring away for 2 hours. Such a waste of having the bed to myself, and I'm still really tired now! Anyway, that was still an improvement on our recent pre-hammock nights so I'll try to get him to stay in there even longer tonight.

The other great thing is that he managed an hour long nap in there yesterday morning :) Well he woke after 15 minutes but I got him back to sleep for another 45 mins, so that is also fantastic progress because until now he would always nap on me or in the pram. I'm planning to get him to have one nap per day in the hammock now so that I can get some things done around the house. I still want to have a decent walk every day so I get some exercise and we both get fresh air, so another one of his naps will be in the pram.

Pukeyrag- I don't understand daytime naps either. There doesn't seem to be any link between DS having good or bad naps and good or bad nights. With the coccoon can you have DD's arms out so she can still suck her hands? She might be a bit happier that way.

[PukeyRag]

owainsmum - Wow, sounds like you really are making progress :) Obviously these things take time, but it sounds like you're doing the right things. How did your night go?

Last night was the same as ever for me, a few wakings, and now that she can roll over that's all she does when she wakes up. A little worried she's going to do it in her sleep (at the moment she just spins herself around) I also took her arm out of the cocoon and left the other one in, it didn't make much difference. Think i'll go back to the normal sleeping bags. Anyway today i'm going to try the day time napping again, see if I can get her to nap 'properly' this time. Wish me luck

[owainsmum]

Good luck :o

No time to write now, but had a fairly good night. I'll update properly later

[owainsmum]

Ok, got a bit more time now :)
DS has so far had one decent daytime nap in the hammock every day, which is brilliant. Yesterday I took advantage of my freedom by cleaning the bathroom, as you can tell I really know how to have a good time :o
Last night he was pretty much the same as the previous night, and did 2 hour chunks of sleep until 2am when he had a feed rather than a suck, he went back to sleep and I had been back in bed 5 minutes when he woke again. I spent ages trying to rock him to sleep but that didn't work, then I let him suck but that didn't work either so I put him in bed with me then. I think he definitely only needs one night feed though, he has his bedtime feed and then another feed at 1-2am ish, then another one not long before we get up in the morning. I just need to get him to stop waking between feeds now, so am going to see if I can persuade DH to deal with any wakings before he goes to bed (usually around 12). Neither of them will like it, DS will want boobs and DH won't be happy about trying to rock DS to sleep (he usually gives up after about a minute), but at this stage I think we need to do something about the sucking to sleep association. It will be much better if DH does this because DS knows I've got milk. And it's the weekend so he hasn't got the excuse of getting up early for work. The wakings are less frequent with the hammock, but I think we need to try this too so we can potentially reduce wakings more, and maybe I'll get my evenings back and actually get to spend some time with DH.
Anyway I'll let you know how it goes (if it does)

[PukeyRag]

owainsmum - That's great, the hammock sounds like a godsend :) And oh yes, we mums know how to party! (The great thing about housework is, you get a clean house and no hangover )

See, this is the problem i'm having too. I always feed DD to sleep but recently she's been getting tired and refusing to eat so it seems she's just not as hungry as she is tired. So what do I do now?! I haven't got a clue how to get her to sleep without feeding She doesn't settle for anyone else either, and DP is the same, he just hands her back after a couple of minutes!

Anyway last night was fine, she only woke up once for a feed so i'm not complaining! This morning she has managed an hour nap in the babysitter again, just got to tackle the rest of the day now!

[LoobyLou33]

Hi fellow sleep-lackers! Great thread, Pukey we met on another sleep-related talk over similar issues - thanks so much for starting this support group! It makes such a difference knowing I'm not alone and sharing other people's experiences. Reading through the posts I keep going "tick - same here." The flip side is I'm sorry you're all struggling to get enough zzzs, I hope that improves for all of us cos even though it may be more normal than we thought (which is reassuring) it doesn't mean we want to carry on getting minimal sleep for the next weeks/months!

I assume when people say their child isn't sleeping the problem is that instead, they are crying? If DS was awake but silent + happy I could just leave him somewhere safe and go for a kip, needless to say he makes his displeasure felt!

Here are my facts in a neat little list!

DS is 7 weeks old, my first, and gorgeous
He almost always falls asleep on the breast and rarely falls asleep any other way (but this is improving a little)
If I move him from my lap to moses basket he almost always wakes up and wails.
The exception is late at night (10pm ish) when he goes in it for around 3-4 hours or longer if he's been awake most of the day (Monday he was awake from 1pm till 10pm with just a couple of 10 min dozes).
Neither DH or I get decent sleep while co-sleeping tho we end up doing it after the early hours feed (around 3am) or else no one would sleep including our poor neighbours. BF lying down in the day is at least giving me the odd doze though
He sometimes falls asleep in the pram but wakes as soon as we get inside (quiet/no motion)
He DOES Sleep a bit in the day by varying amounts and has slept for 2.5r hours on my lap before. Doesn't help my sleep but at least I don't have to feed/stop him crying!

Life is a blur but if my memory's right, the only time he's fallen asleep "by himself" in a cot/basket etc was in the first week or so when he was a) on antibiotics after needing special care and b) primarily on formula milk for same reason. Since coming home he seems to have become increasingly fussy about being put down, which is something I can't understand.

owainsmum let us know how it goes with getting DH to rock him to sleep - that's starting to work for us, and it definitely takes more than a minute!! Though the problem is then putting him down afterwards. pukey perhaps you can try this as an alternative to feeding to sleep? How about giving a bottle of expressed milk as I find he doesn't drift off on the bottle but is full, so you know he's fine to go to sleep?

this post is way long already so I'll leave it for now and write again soon, perhaps with a what has/hasn't worked.

[LoobyLou33]

Oops pukey that should say so SHE can go to sleep, sorry!

[owainsmum]

Well we haven't really made much progress, just stayed the same as the last few nights. DS is usually sleeping for 2 hour chunks at night in the hammock now, and the last 2 nights he has got into bed with me at 3am, which is later than previously. Getting DH to rock him to sleep at between feed wakings hasn't really got started, the first night DS just refused to go to sleep at bedtime (he had too long for his late afternoon nap) so DH had him on his lap for ages until he eventually fell asleep at about 10pm. Next time he woke DH rocked him for about 20 mins but DS just grizzled the whole time and wasn't showing any sign of going to sleep so I fed him in the end. Last night was a bit better and I even managed to rock DS to sleep when he woke after his bedtime feed. Overall he's better in the hammock than he was in the cot, now he sleeps on average 2 hours at a time and maybe he'll extend those times on his own. He is only really feeding properly at about 1-2am and then about 6-7am so between these times if I feed him to sleep I give him the empty breast. The other big advantage is that he has one of his daytime naps in the hammock, usually between 45 mins and an hour.

Anyway, Pukeyrag glad you had a good night, and welcome Looby :)

[PukeyRag]

Too exhausted to post properly right now, just letting everyone know i'm still here and will post tomorrow :) Hope everyone has a good night! (myself included!)

[LoobyLou33]

Happy Monday...how did Sunday night in the tropics go? Did the heat make any difference to your DC's sleep? owainsmum are things still going well with the hammock? Do you think it's because he's a baby who likes motion? pukeyrag are you still shattered or have you caught up on some sleep?

It seems if we have a good day with DS, we have a bad night. He fell asleep around 9pm during a feed, and when we moved him to the moses basket he stirred, woke and went back to sleep which in itself is a minor miracle.

But then he apparently decided that was his main sleep of the night, and after waking at midnight for a feed, wouldn't settle back in the moses basket so I ended up feeding him to sleep and having him in our bed. The trouble is he seems to have this routine of a good 3-4 hour sleep in his moses basket at the start of the night, and if that begins too early we can't sleep at the same time and also end up having him in bed most of the wee hours. Neither of us get proper sleep when he's in with us.

Does anyone else find their baby seems to have a set amount of sleep and if it gets used up too early they're awake more at night?

Here are some things that have helped us:

swaddling - DS does starjumps all night and constantly whacks himself in the face! Tight swaddling stops him waking himself up

bathtime - he enjoys baths so I give him one every night before his bedtime. I then feed him and he usually sleeps 3-4 hours in MB. I don't know whether he associates it or not but it seems worth pursuing.

jigging/bouncing - lately he's drifted off for short spells (40 mins) after being jigged or swayed on someone, can be anyone! DH can also get him to sleep if he's well fed by bouncing on gym ball but says it takes about 300 bounces!

[PukeyRag]

Well, still exhausted and yes, looby, I know what you mean re good day/bad night.

Saturday she slept amazingly, a good few hours in the babysitter. That night was horrendous :( She just wasn't tired and I was so tired that I kept dropping off while feeding her. Sunday was awful in the day, and she slept ok last night but i've been up since five, had a really busy day and i'm now stressing out about tonight as she slept for a solid three hours late this afternoon when we were out.
Looby I don't breastfeed anymore unfortunately (looong story and a lot of guilt), and when I try and rock her to sleep she just cries. I've only succeeded a handful of times with that (although I do keep trying )

Anyway the heat hasn't really done much for DD, how has everyone else found it? I hope you're all making progress :)

I'm sorry for the crappy post, brain is mush at the moment but wanted to post :)

P.S. Feeding DD has now become a battle every time as she cries and pushes it away even though she's obviously tired and hungry so have to do that for 15 - 30 mins before she settles and feeds. To top it all, she is constipated and has a cold.

Sob... This too shall pass....

[owainsmum]

Hello ladies, we've had a weird couple of days and nights, probably due to the heat. Daytime naps have been very short which hasn't helped either. Sunday night I just couln't get DS to sleep at bedtime so ended up having an early night and taking him to bed with me. Last night as it is so hot in our bedroom (in the attic) even with the windows wide open, I put the hammock in the nursery. I spent ages trying to get him to sleep but had to give up and took him downstairs for DH to rock. He did fall asleep in the end and we got him in the hammock but only for an hour. I think he was too hot in there because of the way it "cuddles" him, because after that he did 2 lots of 2 hours in his cot before coming into bed with me at 3.30am. So no progress here yet, I think I'm going to have to get stricter on the no feeding to sleep for between feed wakings. That seems to have worked for lots of people here, but the problem is DS usually just cries, and gets louder and angrier, and more awake. It does work sometimes though, I just need tp persevere with it.

PukeyRag- sounds like you've had a tough couple of days, hope you're feeling a bit better now. At least your DD is napping well, or maybe her naps are even too long, and it's affecting her night sleep?

Looby- you say your DS sleeps in the pram but wakes when you get home, is this after a long walk, or if he's only just fallen asleep? My DS sl eeps in the pram and if he's slept for the whole walk he wakes when we get back, but I've very recently discovered that if he falls asleep on the 5 minute walk from the shop, he usually stays asleep in the pram for a good 30-45 minutes when we get home.

Anyway fingers crossed tonight will be a bit cooler and our little ones (and their mummies) get a good night's sleep :)

[LoobyLou33]

Hi folks,

How did tonight (does this constitute night or morning at 4.30am?) go pukey? So sorry you've had some crappy days and really don't feel bad about posting that, that's the whole point isn't it It's good to let off steam to people who understand. Also you really musn't feel bad about stopping bf, I didn't mean to assume you were, i just hadn't realised you could feed to sleep on the bottle (cos it doesn't happen with DS). I've almost given up every 3rd day, it's so much tougher than you expect.

Yesterday DS was grizzling between feeds and when I took him into the conservatory where torrential rain was pounding the roof, he drifted into slumberland! I tried downloading rain sounds but it hasn't worked at 4am when he had worked himself up into mass hysteria! Still perhaps it's a good option for when he's just tired and grisly...have you tried the same thing?

owainsmum it sounds like we have the same baby! He ends up coming in with me around 4ish after some successful sleeps in cot. Mind you after he woke at 3.30am just now, he wouldn't even settle on DH or me, head flailing + lungs wailing...am feeding him now out of sheer desperation! Like you say he ends up getting more agitated not more sleepy. I need to work on breaking the feed-to-sleep cycle, have you got a technique for that? I heard the Elizabeth Pantley book is good on that - pukey have you found her book helped at all?

Re: the pram, we haven't been on any long walks, it's been after 5 or 10 mins of sleeping when he wakes back up. When he was 2 weeks old he did stay sleeping more, seems to have regressed...

Have some coffee everyone here's to a bit more sleep before the day gets underway, I've only had 3 hours so far!

[PukeyRag]

Hi all, last night was ok, but i'm getting really run down (getting ill and achey) so I just don't have the drive to do anything other than what's easiest :(
So she slept in her cot for the first half of the night and then we co-slept for the rest of the night (she usually comes in with me after the first waking)
Also - you'll be pleased to know I only fed her to sleep twice last night, and rocked her to sleep all the other times she woke up

As for naps, I still can't get the hang of it! It's driving me round the bend, there's no rhyme or reason to how she naps. Yesterday she barely slept until about 5 when she slept until 6:30 (on me) and because of that didn't sleep until 10:30. However, I am trying to push her bed time back so that I don't have to go to bed at 8pm every night!

Also, I figured that the feeding battles were because of the constipation, she finally had a poo yesterday and is a lot happier now!

owainsmum - Are you getting anywhere with the no feeding to sleep?
It gets very hot in our bedroom too and it definitely affects their sleep. :(

looby - Did you get any more sleep?
re the rain noise, I haven't tried that but i've tried white noise and ocean sounds, which did nothing. I find that just normal music calms her down which is great because I have plenty!
I think Elizabeth Pantley definitely has some great ideas/methods, and if I had the energy to try them then i'd probably start making progress but right now i'm pretty much a zombie and feeling extra lazy!

I think they regress when they realise there's a whole world to look at and they just want to be awake all the time in case they miss out on something!

Anyway, going to have some coffee definitely, I hope everyone has a good day!

Happy napping! (ha ha)

[PukeyRag]

Just thought i'd update, as I can't believe what happened today.

We were going out, so I put her (sitting) in the pushchair, which she has only done about three times as she'll be in there for two minutes and then want out. This time she was fine, she seemed happy and quite alert.
We got going and then we stopped for a while, sat and enjoyed the sun and I was just gently pushing her back and forth to keep her calm, and the next thing I knew she was asleep, and she stayed asleep for nearly two hours!

Anyway, it may not mean much to you guys, but for me it was a first Keeping in mind she has never gone from wide awake to asleep without being fed, I think she did well!

How is everyone today?

[mmmerangue]

This thread is certainly easing my worries and making me realise that I have it pretty good really!

My son sleeps a lot better than some of your DCs... but, when he's awake and playing - at 3 months I could leave him for maybe 20 minutes and he would play happily. I could do the dishes or ironing or whatever and listen out for him. Now at 4 1/2 months, the instant you are not within sight he is screaming for you. It's getting really draining. I don't want to leave him to cry of course - there is a line between grumbling and screaming, which I find myself frantically trying to finish what I started before we get to it!

It's good to know at this stage a lot of you are still forgoing housework - I was thinking that everyone would have a superb routine in flow by now an I was a total failure! However my partner works 12 hour shifts and comes home cooks my tea cos I'm exhausted and then we maybe get cleaning done at the weekend, which is really not enough I'm sure DS is gathering a cough because the house isn't cleaned deeply or often enough.

I'm also worried for when I go back to work - working with my Dad from his home office he seems to think that I can take baby with me - he will cry all day long I'm sure of it. Dad and Mum are of the 'babies cry, leave them to it' school and I am starting to wonder how many hours of the day I cried for as a child because they just see it as perfectly normal :/ whereas I am thinking; I'm here, I can stop it, why should he cry?! How and when can I hope for him to 'play and gurgle happily by himself' as my health record suggests he one day might? I have Dr Green's book with it's 'Sleep Technique' as practised by Jo Frost ET AL. could I put this in practise with DS for waking crying times?

[mmmerangue]

• I also have to feed him to sleep... how am I ever going to wean him off that, he absolutely will not sleep any other way (although it does normally work first or second time...)

[owainsmum]

Hi everyone,
sorry I haven't had a chance to post for a few days. Our nights are still the same, although the rocking to sleep between feeds is working, so at least I'm not feeding DS to sleep every time. I've got the technique really good now, I discovered that walking down the stairs (not up!) produces quite a deep stepping/rocking motion that sends him to sleep, so I pick DS up and hold him up against my shoulder (not in a cradle hold or he thinks he's getting fed), then walk downstairs and back up, then continue prancing around the bedroom in a motion as close as I can get to going down the stairs. I must look ridiculous but I don't care! He usually goes to sleep pretty quickly, then when he's definitely gone I put him in the hammock. I've been doing this for all between feed wakings up to about 2am or so, when I can't be bothered any more and just bring DS into bed with me. So far it doesn't seem to have reduced the number of wakings, but at least I'm not feeding him at every waking and letting him suck to sleep any more so it's a tiny bit of progress.

His daytime naps haven't been very good lately either, he always seems to fall asleep just when we're about to go somewhere so I have to wake him and then he won't go back to sleep so ends up having very short naps. Apart from never leaving the house I'm not sure how it's possible to make sure babies get naps at the right times and for long enough.

DS is definitely teething as well, and I think he's got several teeth coming at once because there is a tiny bit of a tooth showing through but it's to the side of the bottom middle ones and they are usually first. I think the discomfort isn't helping his naps or night sleep either. It's hard to sleep when you're chewing both hands at once :(

mmmerangue- welcome! Your DS is the same as mine, I can't leave him playing on his own during the day, he needs me with him or he gets upset. The door bouncer is quite good and I can usually get 10-20 minutes with him in there (with the computer keyboard under his feet because he likes the tapping sound), but apart from that I'm lucky to get 10 minutes.

Pukey- sorry you're not feeling well, carry on getting early nights for now, it will do you good. Congrats on the pram nap, that's fantastic, I wish my DS would nap for 2 hours!

Looby- I've read NCSS and that's why I'm starting with trying to break the feeding to sleep association. I have tried the putting down not quite asleep then even less asleep etc but didn't get anywhere with it. I think I'll try that again in a couple of months, hopefully DS might be waking less often by then.

Anyway, good luck everyone for nice long naps and a good night :)

[LoobyLou33]

Hey all, sorry it's been a few days, had a lot on (including his first injections ) Welcome mmmerangue - I know exactly what you mean about assumptions around work, I'm freelance and one of my employers asked me if I was looking for work yet with DS at 8 weeks!! I think a lot of people have no idea of how demanding babies can be! How long until you're due to go back to work? I hope you can sort something out with your dad, it's difficult with the older generation who tell you "crying is good for their lungs".

pukey you've had a tough ole week, are you feeling any better? Is DD still fussing over food? Perhaps it's because she had a cold (just guessing I don't really have much baby experience yet!) I hope that passes quickly. Great that she slept in the pushchair though, you must be thrilled.

owainsmum really glad your not-feeding-to-sleep is working too. I love image of you pretending to walk down the stairs, like that scene out of austin powers!! Does that mean, if they wake up you don't feed but instead get them back to sleep a different way? Or could it mean you recently fed them but instead of using that to send them to dreamland, pack them off properly in a different way? E.g. yesterday DS fed from both boobs and we had visitors so I wanted to sit with them in the garden. I took him off the boob when he was almost asleep and put him in the sling and rocked him to sleep. Generally he protests at being put in the sling because he loves to look around, but didn't yesterday as he was obviously sleepy.

This was just one improvement this week - on Weds and thurs he slept for 5-6 hours straight after bedtime! Woohoo! The first time, he'd barely slept all day and must have been shattered but the following day he'd had several naps and still slept well. I reckon it could be cos we tightly swaddled him. Last night he was too hot to swaddle and just did the usual 3-hour stint. pukey is an ergo cocoon essentially a swaddle for older babies? If so I'm so getting one! Those flailing arms have a lot to answer for!

Also he fell asleep in car seat yesterday and REMAINED asleep once we brought him in, which hasn't happened since week 2. Obviously kept him supervised in there but it feels like he could be settling down a little, not getting too excited yet though!

[PukeyRag]

Hi all,

Sorry i've not posted recently, it just keeps getting worse around here - DP and I have seperated (I won't go into it but let's just say he is a lying so and so who has severely betrayed me and accused me of some awful things)
so I am currently all over the place, DD is not sleeping because i'm so stressed and we have reverted back to waking a dozen times a night.

However right now i'm just doing what I can to get through the days (mainly by drinking my own weight in coffee) so any thought of working to improve anything has gone out of the window sadly :(

mmmerangue - Hello and welcome :)
I know what you're going through, DD is 4months on monday and is suffering from separation anxiety herself. It's normal and i'd suggest a sling so that he's close to you but you can still do things.
re the housework - honestly, don't worry about it, just do little bits here and there (such as wiping the nearest dusty surface on your way to the baby) and relax. I'm not saying a dirty environment is good for a baby but being exposed to a normal amount of dirt is - it strengthens their immune systems imo. :)
I don't agree with leaving a baby to cry at all. I think at 6 months babies become a lot easier, you can plonk them on a mat with some toys and they'll be happy for a good while - however to work AND look after your baby at the same time? what are your parents thinking? you'll be a zombie.

owainsmum - ha ha that is brilliant, the things we do for our kids eh? :)
Glad you've made some progress with the not feeding to sleep, and I know what you mean about just not being bothered and taking them in to bed with you.
re the teething, yes that will definitely unsettle him - I'm dreading the teething
What are you giving him for it?

Looby - Congrats on the 5-6 hours :) Oh how I miss those days...
An ergo cocoon is basically a swaddle sleeping bag, but I didn't get on with it because she kept rolling over when she was in it, and as she can't yet roll from back to front yet it was worrying me. However i'm keeping hold of it for later on to see if it will work :)
Great that he slept in his car seat :) you must be so pleased, it definitely sounds like he's beginning to settle.

P.S. Apologies for no exclamation marks - i'm typing one handed (exclamation mark)

[owainsmum]

PukeyRag- really sorry to hear about you and your DP, have you got anyone (family or friends) who is calling in to help you and give you a bit of a break? It must be so tough, especially when your hard work at getting DD to sleep better at night has now gone out of the window.

My not feeding to sleep is working in that me and DH can successfully rock DS to sleep when he wakes between feeds, although if he gets really cross (DS that is!) I give him a feed (or comfort suck) and then rock him again when he's dropping off.

Anyway, got to go, DS is waking from his nap!

Hope you are all having a good day, and that the little ones sleep well tonight :)

[LoobyLou33]

Oh pukeyrag I'm so sorry you're having such a rough time and things have gone sour with DP. You poor thing. Have you got friends and family who can rally round and give you some practical/emotional support? You probably need to not worry about the sleeping right now and just focus on yourself and taking it a day at a time, though I appreciate sorting out the sleep is part of getting more time to yourself and not being too sleep-deprived. A dozen wakings a night sounds like more of the night awake than asleep...not good. Can you go to sleep in the day when DD sleeps in her bjorn babysitter, or is it not the sort of thing you can safely leave her in while you go off for a kip? Could someone else look after her for the day and you just go to bed?!

Many hugs and hope things start to pick up for you soon. Is this a permanent separation or do you think you guys might be able to work it out?

[PukeyRag]

I haven't got anyone helping me, and even if I did, they wouldn't be able to take her for a day because she just cries when i'm not around and she wont let anyone else feed her :(
I've been trying to have co-sleeping naps in the day with her, yesterday we got an hours sleep together but apart from that she's just not sleeping. I'm sure she can feel my negativity and stress. :( It's very difficult to go from devastation to happy happy in the blink of an eye but i'm trying!

As for the seperation.. I'm pretty certain it's permanent, and i'm just heartbroken.

Anyway, I hope you're all making progress!

owainsmum - It's great that you can rock him to sleep! Well done to all of you :)

[LoobyLou33]

pukeyrag sympathy emoticon and a big bag of choccies. how awful for you. Having to cope with that while being really tired must be so difficult. I didn't realise DD won't let other people feed her - nightmare! Could a friend or relative at least look after her between feeds, take her out in the pram if she's grisly, to give you chance for 2 hours sleep here and there? My parents are staying this week and have been doing that a bit.

So we've regressed a bit with DS, who was doing longer sleeps but now back to shorter ones at night and having to come in with us earlier in the night. Guess I spoke too soon! Feeling verrrrrrrrrrrry tired, and rather like "how long will this go on for?" So desperate for a proper, proper sleep.
Then he has been feeding very manically so perhaps having a growth spurt and more unsettled (can they have them at 9 weeks?) My boobs feel used up!

owainsmum glad to hear your plan is working, keep up the good work LO! Is it still paying off?

[owainsmum]

Well things have gone slightly downhill, we're in the throes of teething and my poor little DS isn't happy about it. Last night he slept in his cot for a few hours (waking every hour) and then I took him into bed with me but he woke a few times during the night crying in pain, and wasn't even interested in comfort sucking. I gave him some calpol before bed and have done the same tonight, but hopefully he'll be a bit better this time. Because of the teething pain and also because DH is away for a few days I've not been rocking DS back to sleep every time, I think he needs the extra comfort of feeding/sucking at the moment.

Pukey- you poor thing, just try to rest as often as you can. I know it's hard but you need to keep your energy up.

Looby- sounds like your DS is having a growth spurt but your milk supply will match his appetite in a day or so and then you should be back to normal feed times, and you can get a bit more of a break.

I'm having a glass of wine and some chocolate now, care to join me? I think we all need it. Fingers crossed for a not-too-bad night :)