SUPPORT THREAD Specifically for New Mums with "clingy" babies.

[PukeyRag]

(Sorry to use the word clingy, only one I could think of!)

So, there are so many threads on a daily basis with the same question -
"How do I get my DC to sleep on his/her own?"
New mums everywhere find that their DC will only sleep on them, and if they put them down, they'll only stay down for 10-15 mins or so, which is a nightmare, especially for those with babies who do the same at night, and makes you feel like punching the people who say "oh well, you should sleep when baby sleeps!"

This thread is to offer advice and support, techniques that have worked for others, and also for people to have a bit of a moan!

I hope more experienced mums will post the things that helped them, to help others.

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The Reason - ALL babies feel the need to be close to their caregiver, especially in the first few months of their life. It's not natural for them to sleep alone, as they don't yet realise that they're safe.
Their tiny bodies are experiencing so many new and strange things - sounds, sensations, feelings - they need you to be there every step of the way, and they don't care if you're tired to the point of seeing double, all they care about is being full and feeling your warmth and heart beat, which allows them to be calm and sleep soundly.
Bottom line is, we may be used to the modern world, but babies are not!

The Solution - In all brutal honesty, the only solution to this is time, but how do you get past this point of sleep deprivation/not getting things done?

Please read next post for my advice.

[PukeyRag]

Jet - So sorry to hear that, I can't stand it when they vomit :(
Ha ha I love that the sleep sheep is 0 - Adult

Fifi - Oooh i'm sorry if I am! I hope we both get one at a reasonable price!
Good luck for tonight!

DD is currently asleep on DP, took a while to go down as we had a day out today and she slept from 1-4 in the sling so just wasn't tired. She did however sit propped up on the sofa for an entire episode of eastenders! I think that's an achievement of sorts
Off to bed now, night all - and keep the thread going, i'd love more people to join :)

[YogaMummy2B]

Hi All
I have been working hard for the last 2 days to get some day time napping happening, especially as I realised this morning she was not hungry at 7 am, just blooming wrecked and wanted a cuddle to go to sleep. Dear knows how long my poor bub had been awake in her cot wanting to be picked up!
We have had a little success in napping in the cot, with approx 40 mins earlier (which according to Pantley is a whole sleep cycle for a 9 week old! Hurrah! Bought the nap book on Kindle yesterday, it is reasonably good and has some decent suggestions, thanks for the tip JetLi.)
I went on a bit of a spending spree today and bought an Amby hammock and a sheepskin for the cot and guess what has just happened???!!!
I swaddled my DD and put her in her cot, still awake and gave her a dummy, rubbed and stroked her for 1/2 hr and then desperately needed the loo, went to chat to my hubbie, came back 5 mins later & her little eyes were closing! No rocking or swinging or bouncing required!! And no crying & the dummy had been spat out long before!
A minor miracle has occurred today! I reckon she knew I had spent all that money!!
JetLi is your LO OK? Also, I didn't buy the sleep positioner for the hammock as my DD is a big 9 weeks, long and nearly 14lbs, do you think I would still need one?
Wishing you all good nights.

[PukeyRag]

Morning all, had quite a bad night, despite the co sleeping. She went to sleep at 8:30, woke at 12:30, asleep at 2, awake at 4:30, asleep at 6, awake at 8. :(
Not normal for her but every time she woke up hungry and spent the whole time she was awake eating so i'm guessing it's a growth spurt. Staying in today to try and get some housework done...

Yoga - Oh poor thing :( Good that she napped for a whole sleep cycle (didn't know that - I ordered her book yesterday)
Fantastic news about the hammock, sounds like you made a good decision :) I've always wanted one for DD but just don't know if it would work/be worth the money there would be room amongst all the other various sleeping equipment

How is everyone doing today? DP is cooking me breakfast (he's off work for the next three days thank god )

[JetLi]

Morning - she's asleep on DP. Another rotten night with a vomming episode at 1am, followed by full strip + bath + new clothes. So she has been sick in the wee small hours, two nights on the trot. Not sure what to make of it really, but she did have her 16 week injections on Tuesday. She was grumpy by the evening & unsettled on Wednesday too. Coincidence? I can't honestly decide. No temperature, no rash - just the 2 vomits. Once she has been sick on each occasion, she clearly feels much better. The rest of the time she is feeding fine, wet & dirty nappies, a bit subdued maybe, but otherwise just as normal.
Hi Yoga - you might want to see how you get on without it? DD1 rolled all over the place when we first tried to use the hammock & I was worried she would end up with her face pressed against the fabric & suffocate. I used the sleep positioner right up until she started crawling out of the hammock by herself. Its seemed to sort of cradle/hug her. I tried to find an old thread that I was on, but suspect it was in chat & now gone, but I think there are some weight/age recommendations regarding using the mattress? Something about stopping using it at some point? Sorry to be vague - I'm sure its in the instruction booklet. Its in my memory somewhere, but there is a fog of sleep deprivation in the way
Back in a bit - going to feed DP seeing as he is pinned down & is under strict instructions Not To Move

[PukeyRag]

Jet - So sorry she threw up again :( It could well be linked to the injection. My DD went through a phase of throwing up serious amounts but was eating fine and always seemed to feel better afterwards. I think sometimes she just over-ate. If she seems fine then I wouldn't worry about it too much - if it carries on then get her looked at?

[PukeyRag]

How is everyone doing today?

Had a good night here, she slept for 6 hours straight on her own! (well, she was right next to me but still!) Then had a feed then went back to sleep for 4 hours, (she was up and down the second time though, had to keep rocking her back to sleep so I didn't sleep for most of that 4 hour stretch) I was amazed though. It's the day time naps that are a bit of a bugger, she is sleeping on me at the moment.. Do I put her down and risk her waking up?? I bet my breakfast that she'll wake up in about 10 minutes...

[YogaMummy2B]

Hi Pukey well did you put her down?
We continue to work on the napping and have made progress again today with 2 naps of around 1/2 hr - 40 mins in her cot. She is currently asleep on me after a feed, however we are about to go out for a pram walk so no doubt she will wake up again now but perhaps no bad thing as she might sleep tonight.

[PukeyRag]

Yes, DP tried to, but she cried before she even touched the bed. She then fell asleep on me and I tried her again in her pushchair but she only stayed there for about 10 minutes. So we just had her between us for half hour or so and then she woke up. She's been awake since and is now falling asleep on me.

Well done, that's better than we did :) I have actually found that the less she sleeps in the day the better she sleeps at night but I was always under the impression good naps meant good night time sleep, but clearly not

[fififrog]

Just thought I'd give an update on cot-in-own-room. It's actually going really well, touch wood. The first night after the first two wakings she slept til 11.30 and then woke again 2.30 both times to feed though we spent ages getting her fully back to sleep before putting her back to bed as she cried if she woke when being put down. The last two nights she woke at similar times and went back to sleep herself within 15mins of feed. although I had to try 3 times last night to get her down at the beginning, she did self-settle the fourth time. Definite good progress and so much better night's sleep for all than when co-sleeping. DH doesn't even wake up any more!

Now we just need to get the naps sorted, napping on me right now going to try to roll her off me onto the bed!

Think the down-but-awake will have to wait a bit longer as she usually cries too much when falling asleep.

[NewChoos]

Hello all, happy to find this thread, DS is 11 weeks old and also likes to have all naps on DH and myself! We have been co sleeping but I worry about falling on him, we moved his cot up to our room at the weekend and are currently trying the side down next to our bed suggestion. He has managed a couple of 2-3 hours stints in it but only if fast asleep first and last night he was in with us from 0230 and slept much better.
I struggle a bit as don't want to encourage him to be 'clingy' but also want him to feel loved and reassured which in reality means we don't leave him to cry but afterwards worry about picking him up/letting him nap on us :)

But 11 weeks is still tiny isn't it? and we will get him to sleep on his own eventually won't we (desperate smiley)

I have managed to put him down on the sofa for 10 mins while I have breakfast but he is stirring!!

[PukeyRag]

Fifi - Sounds like it's going pretty well your end! I think a lot of wakings are to be expected when trying them in the cot on their own, but the self settling is definitely a good sign!
Re day time naps - how did she sleep today?

NewChoos - Welcome :)
They do sleep better when co-sleeping, and remember, co-sleeping doesn't promote clingyness, it creates happy, confident children who trust you and generally are able to become more independant easily. Also your instincts will help you become more aware of your DC when asleep, it's quite rare to roll onto your baby unless you are extremely overweight.
I think it is best to let your baby lead you for the first year or so, in order for them to trust you and be happy.
11 weeks IS tiny, my DD is 13 weeks today but she is gradually getting better.
Haha I know what that's like, do you put him in a sling at all?

So today DD has been ok, she had a nap in her pushchair for half hour or so early this morning (We got up at 6.30, she napped around 8) but then took forever to have her afternoon nap, I tried putting her down but she wasn't having it and she was so tired! We had to go out to view a house and I figured she'd fall asleep in the car but no, we had to content her with some very loud music, and she was still wide awake when we viewed the house (the estate agent got lots of smiles) and went to a cafe afterwards. I fed her there and she dropped off (This was around 1.30) and she is still asleep now but on me as I tried putting her down when we got home but she cried. Think she's waking up now so I expect she'll be awake until 8.

By the way - Bought slumber bear, it does bugger all really, distracts her slightly but does nothing for her sleep

[issynoko]

I did have 'Mother anxious as baby more settled' written in my red record when DD1 had a few hours on the trot! She is 7 now and still not a great sleeper but compared to the days of colic and exhaustion a world of difference!

[YogaMummy2B]

Well the hammock and swaddling seems to be working for us so far! It arrived this morning and I put it up pronto! She has had 2 naps in it so far and one in her pram.
It looks so comfy in there you couldn't really fail to nap, I want one for me. Although I'll be glad when the snuggler part arrives as I doubt she could push her face up to the side, but the reassurance would be nice.
Its also nice to have somewhere safe for her lie down, downstairs in the day.
Hope you all have good nights, we had a dreadful one last night with 3 full bottles between 12 and 7 (that's loads for my LO) and lots of fussing/picking up & putting down.

[mumtomoley]

Another one here with a baby not keen on being put down! Currently co-sleeping and DS is napping on my lap having been fed to sleep... He's 8 weeks and is starting to go longer on playmat/swing on his own which is good. I need to persist a bit I think, especially with the nighttime sleeping. My main problem is that it seems like no matter what I do he won't go to sleep until about 2.00am so at that time I'm really too tired to do anything other than the easy option!

[lenak]

Reading this with interest as my DD was a clingy baby and am six months pregnant so will have to go through it all again soon.

DD ended up being a really good sleeper eventually and was sleeping through by 12 weeks and these are the things we did which I think helped:

1. Teach Night and Day from the start We ensured that we taught dd the difference between morning and night from the start by washing and changing her clothes in the morning. After the first week or so we tended to avoid babygrows during the day and used soft play suits instead (two piece PJ sets were good for this). We'd then get a baby grow on her at night so she quickly learnt to associate her baby grow with night time and sleep.
   
   
2. Bath, bottle / bf, bed, sleeping bag We used to keep her downstairs with us in the evening, but she was so clingy that we decided we needed to try and reclaim our evenings a little bit, so at five weeks we started doing bath, bottle, bed with the bottle being upstairs in the dimly lit bedroom before putting her in the moses basket. It was about this time we also started using sleeping bags instead of blankets. Some nights it would take us up to an hour to settle her, but the rule was, unless she was ill or paticularly distressed, she would not be brought downstairs after her bath. We'd just lie on the bed with her, soothing (she liked her temple stroked) until she fell asleep. The first night we did this she slept 8 - 3 and did that almost every night after.
   
   
3. Cranial Osteopathy She was a very sick baby and the doctor diagnosed reflux, but none of the medicines worked. Although she was quite settled and slept well at night, during the day, she would only sleep on me or in her pram while we were out. Unless she was in a moving pram she would not sleep on her back during the day, leaving me tied to the sofa (we didn't have a sling at the time). Luckily she didn't have colic, but a friend of mine who's little boy did recommended cranial osteopathy. She had six sessions in all from about eight weeks old and after the first one, she was like a different child. She slept wonderfully that night and the next day, happily went down for naps. There was also a significant decrease in her sickiness and was hardly sick again after the second session.
   
   I appreciate babies probably wouldn't sleep through as quickly in breast fed rather than formula fed, but hopefully our experience may help others. I certainly intend to use the same methods when the baby is born, with the exception of possibly getting the osteopathy earlier as that really was a sanity saver!

[fififrog]

Hi all, an update for pukeyrag!
Today she woke 6.20, napped 8.00 til 9.40 on the bed half on then half next to me, I forced her to stay awake til 11.30 (bad mummy) then she slept til 12.00 in pushchair then again 13.15 til 15.15, 45 mins of which was when I was home so I got washing up done!!! Then 5.15 to 5.45 in my arms, just put her down for night, fingers crossed!!

So you see I have no probs with amount of napping, just where! Pushchair is not always as successful as today.

Lenak good to hear about cranio osteopathy, I'm off to a cranio sacral therapist this week - I figure worst that can happen is a waste of money! main reason for going is to try to stop her crying so hard when she falls asleep it is very draining and upsetting and I don't want her unhappy with going to sleep. If she can stop the crying I think we can eventually make progress with self-settling.

Fingers crossed for a good night's sleep for all :)

[xpatmama]

speaking of clingy babies, does anyone have the syndrome that a nearly 5 month old will cry the moment you leave the room; even if being held by their father/ grandmother etc... ?

by the way she hasn't slept through ever but doesn't bother me too much due to co-sleeping (cot attached to bed) and .. napping as much as possible with the baby.

[PinkSchmoo]

Is this normal for a 5.5 week old:
Take him upstairs about 6.30/7.00. Bath and feed. Usually asleep in Moses basket by 8/8.30. Will wake twice in night on average for nappy feed and generally back down within an hour. That's him through to 7/8 odd. Should I worry that I am feeding him to sleep?

I feel pretty happy with this but our days aren't so good. Trying baby whisperer and managed to get him to nap in Moses basket for an hour today but he really needed more. Really pleased as it's first time he ever went to sleep in Moses basket without being fed to sleep. If I have him out and about he will do 2.
Then he was inconsolable. Slept wee bit in car, buggy, etc. If
he gets overtired he is impossible to settle and we go into the ghastly feed demands and my boobs suffer.

What do other peoples LOs sleep and does anyone have a baby who is NOT predominantly fed to sleep?

Ta

[sherbetpips]

my son would refuse to sleep unless he was being held, eventually afer 6 weeks of it I couldnt take it anymore and the health visitor suggested the following. 1. stop putting him down to sleep in the day, he never sleeps more than 20 mins anyway so no point. 2. Whenever you cuddle him to induce sleep make sure that you have a blanket on you that can then be wrapped around the baby when you put him down. I always used a nursing pillow with a blanky on so the first time we tried it we put him and the nursing pillow with the blanky in the basket. He slept (we didn't of course as we were so worried about him turning over and suffocating. The next night he fell asleep as usual but instead of putting him and the pillow and blanky in we just did him and blanky. It worked (well for a four hour stint anyway) and he never looked back. Became less clingy to us as well. We only ever gave him the blanky when it was sleep time - it was a signal for sleep. It was awful when at 4 years old we finally had to separate it from him - no more guaranteed naps!!! To all those lacking sleep it does end I promise - my little guy is up with the sunrise but I dont care as long as he has his 8 hours it will do me (and poo to all those 11 hourers!!!)

[fififrog]

pinkschmoo I don't feed my daughter to sleep. In the middle of the night she does usually fall asleep while feeding, but when I stick her back down she tends to wake up. Although I'm not exactly doing baby whisperer (eat activity sleep) that tends to be how it works out - she usually wakes from naps when she's ready to eat. We usually "jiggle" her to sleep, but I am now progressing gradually to more gentle jiggling, and when she's calm (not often) just patting her back while holding her in my arms.

I would say (it's amazing how quickly time erases ones memories) my daughter's sleep pattern at night was pretty much the same as yours at 5.5 weeks, though she usually woke earlier. She used to go approx 8.30 to 1.30 then 4.30 waking 6.30, now goes about 7 (though last feed usually a bit earlier) til 11.30 then 2.30 then 6.30

Personally, I wouldn't worry about feeding her to sleep even though I don't do it - I'd say whatever works! Though it might be problematic in the long run if it's impossible to get her to sleep any other way...

[dizzyblonde]

The thing I found worked best was not to try and settle them but to just keep feeding throughout the evening, putting them back on the same breast each time for about four hours then swap. Rationale behind this was so that they didn't have an overdose of the high sugar thirst quenching foremilk but instead the rich hindmilk. Also the best advice I was given was 'be available but boring at night'. I had a night light which I could just about read from and just fed, only changed if dirty and read my way through Agatha Christies. First DD slept from 10.30 to 5.30 at eight weeks and next two DS's were 3 and 4 months respectively. I just assumed that for the first few months I wouldn't be doing anything but feeding in the evening.

[Piranha1981]

What a great thread! DD is 18 weeks and could be described as a clingy baby- luckily I discovered co-sleeping and worked out how to breastfeed lying down fairly early, so I do at least get some decent sleep at night (she latches on in her sleep and I barely have to wake up!). daytime naps are still really tough though as I don't necessarily want to spend my whole day lying down next to DD! And although I've tried sneaking away she tends to wake up and scream when she realises I've gone :(

Another sling fan here- recently upgraded from a Close to a Beco as the Close was getting uncomfy as she got bigger. Sling meets are a great idea to try out some different slings before you buy, as there aren't many shops where you can try them out first.... Thanks for starting it pukey

[bumpandisaacsmum]

Sorry if this has already been said - haven't read through whole thread!!

I found DS would get to "almost asleep" whilst feeding then I'd put him down and he'd scream.... started putting a hotwater bottle onto the cot before I put him down and the muslin I'd used that day under his sheet & it worked a treat. I think the warmth and the familiar smell really helped.

[honeyandsalt]

Wow.... can I just say that having read a few really awful MN threads in the last few days, the support and general air of friendliness on this one has restored my faith in humanity.

I like the warm the bed tip btw! Shall be using that. And we co-slept and used a soft sling, and they were lifesavers. It's also a good plan to have some sort of routine and use the same song each night, as others have said.

[fififrog]

Famous last words,DD just woke up :-(