SUPPORT THREAD Specifically for New Mums with "clingy" babies.

[PukeyRag]

(Sorry to use the word clingy, only one I could think of!)

So, there are so many threads on a daily basis with the same question -
"How do I get my DC to sleep on his/her own?"
New mums everywhere find that their DC will only sleep on them, and if they put them down, they'll only stay down for 10-15 mins or so, which is a nightmare, especially for those with babies who do the same at night, and makes you feel like punching the people who say "oh well, you should sleep when baby sleeps!"

This thread is to offer advice and support, techniques that have worked for others, and also for people to have a bit of a moan!

I hope more experienced mums will post the things that helped them, to help others.

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The Reason - ALL babies feel the need to be close to their caregiver, especially in the first few months of their life. It's not natural for them to sleep alone, as they don't yet realise that they're safe.
Their tiny bodies are experiencing so many new and strange things - sounds, sensations, feelings - they need you to be there every step of the way, and they don't care if you're tired to the point of seeing double, all they care about is being full and feeling your warmth and heart beat, which allows them to be calm and sleep soundly.
Bottom line is, we may be used to the modern world, but babies are not!

The Solution - In all brutal honesty, the only solution to this is time, but how do you get past this point of sleep deprivation/not getting things done?

Please read next post for my advice.

we planned to hire out dd to the bomb disposal squad for training purposes.
apparently, newborns take about 30 mins to go into that deep sleep phase, and are light sleepers til then... so beware.

dd was an appalling sleeper/feeder, ages before we got a full night, but she was pretty good at co sleeping on top of the duvet. she wouldn't settle on her own til she was 2 at least but prefers to be left alone now at 4. we used to console ourselves with miriam stoppards advice that she was an alert baby learning a lot by looking around. (not necessarily true but it does help you feel better )

I am LOVING this thread!!

I am ashamed to admit that I was one of those smug mums with my DS1 who's baby slept like a dream (although I never rubbed anyones face in it) but am getting my comeuppance with DS2 who is very 'clingy'

He is 11 weeks old and has not slept well at all. He some how knows when I set foot on the stairs to take him up to bed even when sound asleep and hates being in the bedroom. He sometimes sleeps in his crib in the day but has never slept anywhere at night apart from me or DP even when he is hanging with tiredness as soon as I lay him anywhere he is screaming. My DP is not working at the moment so we are doing shifts, I stay up until about 4am then he gets up till its time to take DS1 to school and we are really struggling, 11 weeks have never seemed so long!

We have decided to get his rather lovely and comfy cotbed from storage as the crib really isnt doing it for him and im hoping it will make a difference (clutching at straws!!) and have brought an all singing all dancing cot mobile to go with it. We have also noticed that he sleeps better when wrapped up all cuddly but it is so warm in our house I worry about him over heating...oh the dilemas!!

We havent done co-sleeping as my DP sleeps very heavily and I worry he will roll on him or something but he might be banished to another room if it becomes the only viable option lol.

Im going to be trying all the suggestions and hope that it means he will sleep better as a toddler and that I have to practically bribe DS1 for a cuddle etc. and DS2 might be a bit more of a lovely boy as he is a bit more clingy! Every cloud and all that :) x x

Thank you all for your replies, you've got some really useful tips out there and I hope you can all benefit from this thread. How is everyone doing this morning? :)

Yoga - Fantastic news about the hammock! :) I do wish I had a hammock for myself too, they're so comfy. Obviously your DD just couldn't resist :) How long are her naps now?
She'll be perfectly safe, it is good to have something downstairs for them to sleep in. I've got the moses basket on a dreamrocker platform and the pushchair laid flat. (Funnily she sleeps better in the pushchair, typical isn't it?)

Mumtomoley - Yes, 8 weeks is a great turning point for being able to put them down while they're awake for longer periods (ime) DD is 13 weeks and stays on her mat/in her bouncy chair/propped up on cushions for about 30mins now (which is great for her, real progress) and up to about an hour in her door bouncer, she just loves it :)
I think at the moment he is very young and will find his own routine in time. What kind of sleep is he getting at the moment?

Fifi - The day time napping sounds pretty good, maybe you could invest in a hammock aswell for her naps? Or maybe a cradle swing or just a little travel cot?
You never know, after the cranial osteopathy she might sleep anywhere fingers crossed for you :)
Sorry that she woke up, how did the rest of the night go for you?

PinkSchmoo - Don't worry at all that he is fed to sleep, he's still so young and probably needs the comfort/bonding :) (some babies still feed to sleep after their first year) just do what works for you! I think the night time routine he has got at the moment is pretty 'normal'.
Re moses basket nap - that's great, better than my DD's napping abilities! :)

Piranha - No problem :)
I know what you mean about day time naps, it's no wonder you're a sling fan :)
How often are you trying to put her down on her own?
For about 2 weeks I didn't even bother putting DD down, it was co-sleeping and sling completely, but recently i've been putting her down in the day time after she's fallen asleep on me and she stays down for longer now.
Maybe it's a case of just forgetting about it now and trying again later?

honeyandsalt - Thank you, that's lovely :)

And yes, warm bed tip is great, thanks bumpandisaacsmum :)

justbeingmummy - Uh-oh, you must have had a bit of a shock then!
Re co-sleeping, I really do advise it, and when there's three in a bed you just have the baby on the other side of you to DP, that's what I do :)

Well, I hope everyone had a good night, mine was reasonable and can't complain :) She's been on her mat for about 15 mins this morning and now she's sat up next to me on the sofa. Can't wait until my jumperoo arrives!

The first few weeks are really hard - but it's because a) babies need to feed all the time and b) they need to feel secure and warm all the time. We tried all teh usual things - used breastpad in the moses basket, and the top I'd worn etc and did swaddle with a sheet, but it didn't seem to make much difference. After the first 2 weeks, we realised our LO hated her Moses basket - we think it was 'cos she couldn't see out of it. So, we co-slept for the 3rd week but at exactly 3 weeks old she went into her own cot in her own room and settled straight away - she immediately started sleeping for 5 hours, with just one breastfeed in the night then another 4-5 hours, then at 6 weeks old she started to sleep through the night (8+ hours). I think when she was in our room we all disturbed each other so she was immediately much happier in her own room. The only time we had a bit of a blip in that was due, we think, to separation anxiety as it was at about 24 weeks old when she began to not be able to go to sleep in her cot and would cry as soon as I put her in it. It coincided with her starting to cry if I left her alone in the living room during the day as well, so we think it was separation anxiety related. She is fine now though - we just stuck with the method of going in, putting our hands on her tummy and saying "It's time to go to sleep now" then going out again when she went quiet, going in again briefly when she started crying again, or peeping around the door to comfort her, just enough to stop her crying but no more (not picking her up) etc and over a couple of weeks she stopped having that problem. She's 9 months old now and still goes to sleep pretty much straight away in her cot, after her last breastfeed of the evening. She was just the same with daytime naps at around 6 months too, she didn't want to be left alone, but we did the same with those, and now she will settle pretty much straight away.

Great thread. Wish someone had told me this was all normal - I had thought you just popped baby in moses basket and had a nice kip nearby yourself. Yeah right!

DD was like this - couldnt put her down till 6-8 weeks. She slept on me at night in our bed (once she was out for the count I used to slide her very gently off me and down next to me!)

At about 8 weeks, when she could see and hear and smile, things were better. She was happy to go in the carseat on the pram wheels (the carrycot was still a no-no - too big!). Up till that point I carried her in teh sling and the carrycot was full of shopping bags, ha ha!

By about 3 months I started giving her a bath and feed at about 7, then she would get into sleepsuit and sleeping bag with her dummy and lie awake in her moses basket whereever we were (usually slaked out on the sofa watching TV!)

She'd drop off after a bit then we'd carry her upstairs in the basket when we went up. This was the first semblance of some sort of nighttime routine.

Then a bit later on (4/5 months?) we would give her a bath and feed and then put her in her basket/cot upstairs once she had dropped off. Of course she would wake probably at 11pm and then again in the night for a feed, but from that point DD had a "bedtime" of sorts and we had a couple of "adult" hours in the evening (usually at least!)

She went in a cot in her own room at 6 months.

In terms when you can just do bath/story/songs/bed and say goodnight and expect to leave them for 12 hours through the night without them needing you, for DD it was at about 21 months. She'd been pretty good before that (sometimes sleeping through, often just waking cos she'd lost her dummy and then going off again when we'd given her it back).

So now we get a good nights sleep. Shame DC2 is due soon, and the whole thing starts all over again . No, I wouldnt change it for the world!

Bumpsadaisie - Congrats on the second one :) I hope you are blessed with a sleeping baby - you will have to let us know!

I think the most important thing is to look beyond the obsession with getting the baby to sleep on their own. If they won't do it, don't make them. Co-sleeping is fine if everyone's happy, why suffer broken nights because you have been made to feel that baby should be sleeping on his/her own?

It also riles me when it's suggested that a "good" baby is one that sleeps a solid 1-12 hours a night. Babies aren't good or bad, they're individual people and they are all different. A solid night's sleep is a relatively recent, Western notion. Many societies (and indeed ours before artificial lighting) sleep in 2-3 hour chunks, getting up and having a chat, whatever, throughout the night.

From this you may gather that baby Freeman does not usually sleep through, she never has, she was a wakeful newborn and has remained thus. I stopped worrying about it around the same time as I stopped hanging out with the neurotic NCT brigade who were constantly comparing notes about sleep lengths.

Well we have had a mixed few nights really. For a couple of nights DS wasn't too bad, I even managed to put him into his cot about 5 minutes after a feed and he stayed asleep, then ended up co-sleeping when I went to bed, but last night he was awful again. I couldn't get him into the cot at all, he kept waking and crying, so I just got into bed with him. He used me as a human dummy most of the night, waking very frequently (between 15 mins and an hour). These last couple of weeks he must be sleeping very lightly, he rarely stays asleep for more then 1 sleep cycle, and it's often less than that, especially when I first put him down. He's nearly 20 weeks now so I'm hoping he's been doing the 4 month sleep regression and it might be nearly over, but I just can't get him to stay asleep.
I have tried putting him in the cot for daytime naps a few times now, but it's even harder than at night. He can sense when I start lowering him into the cot even when he's fast asleep! I think I'll stick to the pram and holding him for now, he's asleep on me at the moment, gives me a chance to catch up on MN :)
It seems like some of you are making progress though, and to those who have had bad nights, I hope it gets better for us soon

I don't have any particular advice, just wanted to say, DS is now 2.8, sleeps in his own bed (transitioned from co-sleeping when we were both ready) and wakes once in the night, sometimes at around 11/12 just before I go to bed, or sometimes at around 3/4am when he just gets up and comes into my bed. I don't even wake up for this any more.

They will get there, in their own time. I'm still feeding him to sleep, but it takes less than 15 minutes these days as he's old enough to understand if he's messing around and kicking me etc I will go downstairs.

I can only share how we did it with DD - now 16months. I was very ignorant about sleeping and it never even occurred to me that you wouldn't just leave a baby to self-settle. Mine did it from about 4 weeks. I just made sure she was changed and fed (bf), laid her down in moses basket and walked out. Figured there was nothing she needed so she'd stop crying eventually.

Initially she'd wake every 90mins-2hrs for a feed - she was next to the bed but I never co-slept. I hated the idea. During the day I had her in a flat bouncer to sleep in next to the sofa, sometimes she'd just go to sleep on her playmat. She'll sleep anywhere.

After about 2-3mths she was feeding every 3hours. At 5mths she was waking when we came to bed at 10 for a feed and again around 4am, then properly awake at 7-8am. At 6mths we moved her out of our bedroom and moved to ff and solid foods - within a 10days she started sleeping through and has never stopped (save for when she is poorly). She sleeps 7pm - 7/8am. She also naps during the day for around 3 hours - in one or two naps.

She is a dream baby when it comes to sleeping, but i take no credit for it, she just likes sleeping. When I was working I used to have to actually wake her up sometimes to get her to nursery. Next DC due in July and I'll probably have a colicky one this time.

I was told to never feed them to sleep during the day - follow the eat, activity, sleep pattern so you don't rely on a bottle/boob to get them to sleep. Made a huge difference to us.

We leave the radio on (Classic FM) low just outside his bedroom door (so he can hear it but we don't hear it over the monitor). We often hear him wake (and scream) in the night, then he hears the noise and goes back to sleep - he needs us to go in if the radio isn't on.

Def agree re making sure they are healthy. A cranial osteopath was our saviour (yes I know some people don't believe, but in our expereince she was worth her weight in gold)

Having said tht he still isn't a great sleeper at 14 months...

Hi ladies, just wanted to add to this lovely thread...apologies if anything I say has already been said, haven't had chance to catch up on all posts

My DS is now 15 months, he has always been a calm baby but have to add my support to the "babywearing" voices out there, he was in a wrap type sling almost constantly for the first few weeks of his life so that sorted the day time sleeps at the beginning.

Night time was a different story...

We tried co-sleeping but found that whilst he slept like a dream, I did not. After a while we tried putting him down to sleep in a baby hammock ( like this one and I have to say it was amazing. He slept in this next to our bed until he was 6 months old when he was so big his bouncing kept us awake . I can't recommend highly enough, it was truly brilliant. I wish they made them for wriggly toddlers! (or adults for that matter....) It even comes with a special door clamp so you can take it with you if you go away and it packs up sooooo small.

Convinced that the fact that DS was held close by the hammock fabric and that his movements gently rocked and bounced him helped him to sleep well at night, I guess its a bit like a sling that you don't have to wear.

Fab post OP. My dd spent her first six weeks being carried around and I spent a lot of time looking for a 'solution' when the only solution was, in fact, time. She is now four months old and is a contented, little cherub.

After a good couple of days we're having a horrendous morning. Can't put him down for a second... Thankfully he's sleeping on me now but I'm pinned to the sofa which is no good when there's 3 loads of laundry waiting, washing up from last night, beds to remake and a whole load of other stuff. Plus it's nearly lunchtime for me and I'm yet to have breakfast unless you count a mini twix.

I can't even move him to wrap him in a sling.

Hope everyone else is doing better!

Fraktious, repeat after me, "this too shall pass, this too shall pass".

Forget the laundry etc - it will keep - just make sure you get your lunch! Time for daytime TV I think!

Thanks everyone! :)

How is everyone today?
Had a pretty rough night, for some reason she was up and down all night, I still think she's having a growth spurt as she's eating a lot.
She's asleep on me now, just about to try and put her down...

Fraktious - I am so sorry to hear that :(
Is he crying every time you put him down?
Do you have a sling?

And yes. This too shall pass!

Whoops, sorry, i'm clearly not paying attention!

You say you can't put him in the sling - is there anybody else who can come and help you, put him in the sling/hold him for half an hour so you can sort out some food/not go insane?

He cries if I move :( I have a sling (or 5) but MNing on my phone which involves minimal movement is risky. I hate to think what fetching a sling would do, he'd fight wrapping but he's unlikely to settle well in the RS or the carrier.

Oh god, I don't know what to suggest aside from getting someone round to help :(
Or possibly just getting up and rocking/jiggling to calm him and get him used to some movement, maybe that way you could at least walk around and do things one handed?
Any idea what's wrong with him? :(

Well he just did a huge burp, spat up, burped again, farted a little symphony and let me grab our trusty Didy waves to wrap him. I have toast, all is looking better.

That wind was well and truly stuck!!!

Ah, fabulous :)
It's amazing how relieved it makes you feel when they let their wind out... Or is that just me?

Nope, not just you

He just did a huge, explosive poo as well. I'm so glad we use cloth. There's no way a disposable would have coped with that.

Hahaha... I can imagine.