MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

I don’t agree with this thread title, although I did post on that thread not in agreement with the op

I'm also very concerned about the moderation of the FWR forum. I have always found the content of many of the posts there distasteful regarding trans people, but the straw that broke the camel's back for me was a thread where people were openly mocking a picture of a trans man and that is all fine and considered good faith debate, yet deleted my comment which had no personal attacks in it, solely for including the word cis.

I get that not everyone likes the word cis, but to consider it a slur worthy of deletion, that draws a hard line and shows IMO that Mumsnet are content with allowing transphobia to blossom on this site.

@MNHQ I never bothered to challenge that deletion as I chose to step back from the whole sorry board for a while instead, but I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for upholding that decision against my post.

‘I will use my US constitutional rights to try to deny you your Universal Human right to freedom of expression - even though I have a limited understanding of your country, your culture, your laws, your opinions - and indeed how technology works (just log in on iPad to use your settings, why don’t you?!).’

Slow handclap for US cultural imperialism trying to shut down uppity British women.

Just hide it. The moaning is worse

Apparently some Troll factories were shut last week. I think this would be a good time for @MNHQ to look at posts across the whole board.

You are busily force teaming homosexuals who would wish to be allowed to be openly homosexual with TQ+ politically controlled re invented sexualities that revolve around gender identity.

Hence your current posts scolding homosexual women who have explained this to you that they may reject male people who identify as lesbians on a 1:1 basis, but having a sexuality that excludes all male people (homosexuality) is a 'bit odd'.

You are doing your best to also speak for 'all lesbians' to try and paint those resisting as a weird minority, and just deny the events and experiences of women that do not fit your narrative.

This is, as per usual, an attempt of the usual suspects to silence and disappear women saying inconvenient truths that mess with TQ+ political control.

I would also add that Suggestions and others who claim to be homosexual have been explained to, in very small words by others of us who are homosexual, that some of us feel that

• Pride does not welcome us
• We have been excluded on the grounds of not accepting men as lesbians and potential sexual partners with this painted as anything from 'hateful' to 'odd'
• The flag representing the political view point that sees homosexuality as offensive to gender identity is not a sign that is welcoming to those homosexuals it has chased out and in fact is a symbol of political homophobia and a place where you would absolutely not be safe to be 'out' and open about your homosexuality

In return we've been flat out lied to that anyone pointing out things like the 'cotton ceiling' are 'far right extremists' trying to manipulate the general public - this would include the leader of Stonewall!

The TQ+ lobby has colonised the LGBT+ movement, ejected, silenced and bullied out those it could not control and redefine, and then claimed when they were gone that they no longer existed.

They now appear to be trying this on MN. Again.

The idea that the FWR needs mnhq to ‘keep a closer eye on it’ is ridiculous

Women posting opinions - I mean some need to get over that

If there are posts or threads that break guidelines, report them, that’s what it’s for

There is a thread on FWR entirely devoted to the collation of stories about any crimes trans people commit. Anyone who finds anything in the news, in the UK or further afield pastes the story in for others to comment on, and it certainly used to regularly be at the top of the board.

Now, you may not think this a problem, but if you are fine with this, then to be logically consistent you must agree that it is perfectly fine that any other forum out there start up and devote a thread entirely dedicated to the collation and recording of any crimes lesbians commit, and commentary on what should be done to address this pressing social problem.

And this is a very good indication that this thread is posted - and in some cases contributed to - in extremely bad faith.

THIS is your example of a transphobic thread? I'll offer a clearer picture. The thread in question is titled 'This Never Happens'. It's a direct refutation of the weak reasoning offered by trans rights activism - a claim not only devoid of basis but actually flying in the face of extensive evidence to the contrary - as to why women should meekly cede over our protected spaces without objection or argument.

The thread is a sequence of ongoing, individual cases which evidence what feminists have warned about almost from the beginning: that this does happen, and it happens with alarming and depressing regularity.

In which case, your self-professed logical deduction is in fact completely illogical. The LGBA rights movement never claimed for rights over and above those of others. Their reasonable requests to live without persecution and discrimination, and to order their lives and marry the partner of their choice. They've never asked for anything the rest of society hasn't always taken for granted, and they haven't attempted to stampede over or colonise the rights of any other vulnerable group (and yes, women's biology makes us so.

In which case, your suggestion that they'll be coming for other groups next and collating their crimes makes zero sense. Women are at risk when sharing mixed sex spaces with biological males. That thread provides ample ongoing evidence as to the fact, and to the reasons why that's the case.

Lesbians are women. Why would other women have a vested interest in keeping them out of an exclusively female space.

Note, too, how trans men are not coming after men in the same way, hence they are not subject to the same depth of discussion on that board.

The reasons are hardly difficult to deduce.

Please quote from my posts directly rather than fraudulently reporting what I have said.

Your post wrongly insinuates that I have used the words 'a bit odd' about people; I have done nothing of the sort.

I have voiced that it is important for everyone to be able to assert their own individual sexual choices, to have these choices respected, and that others should not override the articulation of individually experienced preferences.

This ...creaping Into every bloody board.

By 'others should not override the articulation of individually experienced preferences' you mean that homosexual women must accept male people self identifying as lesbians and treat them accordingly.

In other words that male identify trumps the right of women to have a sexuality that is sex based. It rejects homosexuality, however you dress it up in pomo English.

I have hidden the thread since I could not stand any more of the wangling and nonsense, particularly after you insisted that anyone who mentioned the issues lesbians have experienced in being called for example 'sexual racists' was right wing: this would include Stonewall and its head. I believe your comment however want along the lines of to reject an entire group of people rather than on an individual basis would be a bit odd. By which you meant lesbians as a group including male people.

If you're 'GC as they come' but would like to see a wider range of views and voices then surely the way forward would be to petition MNHQ to allow discussion of the topic on other boards?

At the moment any threads elsewhere on the subject are reported and moved and/or repeatedly interrupted by posters who I can only assume don't want to see the discussion taking place at all.

I'm afraid I find this incredibly naive.

Do you recall the 1980s when lesbians were fearful about being open about their sexuality because of the stigma around them and association with abuse of children?

Gay female professionals, especially those who worked with children, were on edge concealing their sexuality because of the prejudices that existed, associating our sexuality with abuse.

Do you want us to return to those times?

You do not agree that homosexual people have a right to state their problems with this? Their exclusion, that Pride is becoming an active oppression to women and men who want to be homosexual and proud of it?

They should just shut up and go away? Not upset the applecart by wanting all homosexual voices heard because it spoils Pride?

Are those issues ok if you don't have to look at them or hear about them?

Eh?

How is pointing out that males who identify as women carry the same safeguarding risks as any other males the same?

It isn't.

There is an assertion by the TRA community that TW should be considered as women for all purposes including safeguarding

This is not backed up by any evidence

We should not be afraid of calling out actual harm

If evidence isn't collected because people are scared of hurting one group they can hurt others

Look at how child rape isn't investigated because of "cultural sensitivity "

Nothing is simple , everything requires balance and at the moment that balance is missing in official places

Ah it's so nice to have the straight people come on and talk on behalf of 'the homosexuals'

How did you decide I was straight?

I am homosexual. I don't use the word 'lesbian' for clarity because I do not accept the political pressure to name this as a mixed sex group and believe in the right of women to have a sexuality that sees and believes in a sex basis.

Julie Bindel wrote an excellent article on this last year:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-lesbians-no-longer-welcome-at-pride/

The whole piece is worth reading, but here's an excerpt:

As a lesbian that came out in the Life on Mars days of the 1970s, when I was told, on a regular basis, that all I needed was a ‘good f––’ to ‘straighten’ me out, I have watched with horror at the vilification of lesbians for firmly rejecting men that claim to be women from their dating pool.

The women at Pride Cymru were carrying banners adorned with the words, ‘trans activism erases lesbians’ and ‘lesbians don’t like penises’, which caused a major kerfuffle amongst the crowd. Rather than having a word with the individuals that were screaming abuse, police decided to eject Get the L Out. So, lesbians were kicked off a so-called Pride procession

This is the type of criticism of Pride that's being discussed on FWR.

Is the argument being made by some posters in this thread that this should not be allowed?

IMHO this is the single best example of actual pearl clutching I’ve ever seen: promoting and glorifying illegal activity - STICKERING!!!

THE HORROR!!!

If you think men can be women, then lesbians could well be straight men (who say they are women) married to either a man (who says they are a woman) or a woman.

If you think men can be women then you are the ones obliterating the very concept of homosexuality.

So who knows what or who you are talking about.

As opposed to the bisexual women who regularly talk on behalf of ‘the lesbians’ in the ‘LGBTQ+’ sphere?

How do you think vulnerable, young gay people feel when they see the flags that represent them and the support and well-wishes their communities have for them, defaced?

And of course the heterosexual males ditto.