MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

Well give examples then. Surely you remember some by memory?

And also the faux naivety "we don't hate trans people" "if you see any transphobia please report it"

Ugh.

The prevailing tone and sentiment of the board, to me anyway, is women are absolutely sick and tired of being called transphobic for saying TWATW, for wanting to retain sex based spaces and to acknowledge biological reality.

I mean it's not 2010 anymore, it's 2023 and tides are turning.

FWR is a perfect parody of it's original intentions.

You're judged by the company you keep. Take a look around.

You're judged by the company you keep

Pretty much the definition of a purity spiral right there. How about judging me on what I actually say and do?

Or the crusaders bleeding over to AIBU because "this needs a wider audience".

Yes, annoying.

God some of you are so bitter about women with different opinions.

You know, women who dare to say NO to men in our spaces and NO to children being taught in schools that if they don't form with stereotypes their bodies might be wrong.

Wtf is a purity spiral?

When you start trying to stick up for Nigel Farage having his bank account rescinded you know you are on the wrong side.

You are judged by the company you keep😄 Do people know how they sound. Pretty much everything wrong with current debate in one sentence.

Ok yes, let me give you an example.

There is a thread on FWR entirely devoted to the collation of stories about any crimes trans people commit. Anyone who finds anything in the news, in the UK or further afield pastes the story in for others to comment on, and it certainly used to regularly be at the top of the board.

Now, you may not think this a problem, but if you are fine with this, then to be logically consistent you must agree that it is perfectly fine that any other forum out there start up and devote a thread entirely dedicated to the collation and recording of any crimes lesbians commit, and commentary on what should be done to address this pressing social problem.

(Unfortunately from my perspective as I am a gay women there is plenty material for people to go on here)

What is the impact of this? It solidifies animosity towards the group in question. Would it be homophobia for this thread to exist about lesbians? Is it transphobia for that thread to exist about trans people?

Because that's what complex issues are about - 'sides', football team politics.

Posted too soon.

I meant to say the threads themselves may not constitute homophobia or transphobia, but they are certainly likely to result in homophobia and transphobia from some readers.

I'm not bitter. I'm just voicing my opinion, different though it may be.

I just get annoyed by the bullish "look what this trans person did" threads that get posted outside of FWR.

Well I have a transwoman at work that uses the women's loos and I couldn't care less.

If there was a campaign for men with ginger hair to access womens spaces, I would be pointing out when ginger haired men committed crimes against women.

@DiagonalDots your language would suggest you are bitter.

Damn these pesky women not wanting male rapists in women's prisons eh.

Good for you. You don't get to throw that right away for other women though.

Why would you assume that I have the power to do that?

I don't want male rapists in women's prisons either.

Why is that so often the default response? "You're either with us or against us and therefore must want the worst of all the things we oppose".

It just deepens the divide.

Well that's nice but you may have colleagues who do care.

Why don't their views count?

Oh god. It's like a game of bingo. 10 points for 'the tides are turning', 5 points for 'woke', 2 points for a post to a Twitter thread, 8 points for a link to a news article of a trans person doing something bad, 20 points for body shaming Sam Smith.

I think the problem is that some people are opposed to the idea that trans women are women because they actually hate and fear trans people along with anyone else who isn't heteronormative, and some people are opposed to the idea that trans women are women because they believe that the difference between men and women is biological sex, not gender identity.

The latter belief is in no way bigoted but it has become something that we essentially aren't allowed to express out loud in very many places without being censored and shut down. We know that this has a chilling effect on free speech. We know that women have been fired, disciplined at work and subjected to threats and abuse for not falling into line. Some people are now being denied banking services.

Whilst I appreciate the fact that Mumsnet allows this debate to take place when many spaces on the internet do not, if you confine discussion of these issues to certain small corners of the internet you are going to create spaces people are attracted to when they want to blow off steam and say things they know they can't say anywhere else. And because it attracts two types of people - those whose views may come from a place of bigotry and therefore have similar views about people of different sexualities and races, and those whose views come from a belief in the importance of material reality in relation to women's rights and child safeguarding - it becomes harder to separate those two things.

Instead of confining these discussions to the naughty corner and then keeling that area under close surveillance, we should be having those discussions out in the open and letting everyone play their role in calling out actual bigotry when it arises.

No.

There is most dispiritingly an ugly racist undertone across the site as a whole: a disappointing observation given its users tend to set themselves up as better educated than that. It's been noted and commented upon before, and I for one have found myself the butt of some very ugly posts for taking it to task.

If anything the FWR board is less noteworthy for this than elsewhere. The royal boards, which I generally avoid, are one example or a subgroup that is far worse.

It's unfortunately true that forced teaming of the more aggressive TQ activism with LGB is dragging the LGB down with it, but both this and the homophobia actually directed from within TQ are topics of far more nuanced discussion than the OP here suggests.

You've got a problem with FWR because it vociferously advocates for women's rights. At least try not to be so transparently disingenuous about it.