MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

Why are groups whose focus is exclusion so keen to attend events that are focused on inclusion?

How do you think vulnerable, young, exclusively same-sex attracted people (especially lesbians) feel when they see the flag and the community that used to represent them distorted beyond recognition into a celebration of homophobia and misogyny?

Do you mean defaced by the huge arrow that is wiping out the rainbow? I think gay and lesbian people (the old fashioned homosexual people) would be pretty pissed off about it.

Why those vulnerable young gay people's feelings matter and yet the feelings of vulnerable young gay people who feel excluded and oppressed by the political view that homosexuality is wrong do not? Growing up in a world where to be homosexual is painted by those under this flag as sexual racism, and they are encouraged to 'overcome their genital prejudices' and 'learn to cope' with sex with the opposite sex based on identity?

These emotive appeals are never reciprocal.

Why too should those feeling harmed and oppressed by a movement that used to represent them be expected to not protest or point this out on the grounds that it may upset some people? No one has worried about upsetting them.

😂 Well this is actually laughable, I could probably muster up a couple of hundred young lesbians who would not have a clue what you were talking about, it is so alien to their experience of Pride and their LGBTQ community.

They'll all be at the Pride marches, come and see for yourself.

Why do you pretend it’s ‘inclusive’ to welcome male people into female only spaces and straight people into supposedly gay spaces, when what it is is actually intrusion?

If you care so much about inclusivity, why aren’t you concerned about including those people who are genuinely homosexual, as in only attracted to others of their own sex, in Pride?

About letting them celebrate and be PROUD of their orientation, instead of acting like it’s something weird and unnatural, like every old school homophobe ever?

By 'focus is exclusion' do you mean those who want to be accepted in the LGBT community as openly homosexual, on a sex basis, which excludes anyone male from their dating pool regardless of identity?

I was marching in Pride in the days when it wasn't a corporate jolly and when there were actual less civil rights as a homosexual than I would have had as a straight person. Why do you feel I and others who wish to be able to be out and proud as we were in those days should not wish to attend Pride? It's not that inclusive an event is it when homosexuals are not welcome.

They are right here with us, don't you worry, celebrating their sexuality and standing shoulder to shoulder with the marginalised trans community who of course also have varying sexualities.

I don’t recognize this at all. The anti- Pride stuff is about Pride no longer being about people being able to be unashamedly same sex attracted, but instead being proudly, vocally and openly exclusively same sex attracted is no longer allowed at Pride. That’s why posters don’t like it. They want Pride to be about its mission.

I have not seen people against homosexuality in schools, just against gender ideology being taught as fact in a school.

Self selecting, innit - the ones who are happy to go to Pride are the ones who are down with GII, obvs.

I could equally well muster a couple of hundred young lesbians who are horrified by what Pride has become, and who self exclude from Pride because it doesn’t represent them, is hostile to them.

The existence of one group doesn’t negate the existence of another, you know.

Seconded.

And there we go.

The voice of lesbians, hundreds of them, who don't feel this way and so no lesbians exist that feel that way.

Not nice ones anyway. They don't matter, it never happened.

Of course it's alien to the experience of Pride, which pushed out most people who didn't agree years ago! If you push out all the dissenters what you have left is the political TQ+ lobby. And yes, young lesbians are being very carefully raised in the belief that homosexuality isn't ok unless by homosexual you mean 'attracted to people of both sexes based on a woman identity'.

It's like talking to Professor Bloody Umbridge.

You know what, I somehow really doubt that you could muster that size of group.

Let me find those studies again showing the greatest support for the trans community comes from lesbians.

But you yourself have said it’s “odd” to be exclusively same sex attracted.

And you know as well as I do that it’s now taboo (because “transphobic”) in the “LGBTQ+ community” to state openly that you’re not and never will be interested in anyone of the opposite sex, no matter how they identify.

You know lesbians and gay men have been kicked out of Pride events for stating exactly that. You know this full well. So why pretend it’s not true?

Go out and look at the current pride marches. There are more young women attending than there have ever been. It's great to see.

You don’t realise what percentage of GC women, inc young women, are actually lesbians? 😂😂

Again: Because Pride stopped welcoming any noncompliant ones years ago.

This is why women only lesbian groups have all gone underground. Young lesbians don't have access to women only communities easily found locally for support any more, do they? They're mixed sex and TQ+ compliant ones.

I'm pretty sure none of the underground groups were surveyed. And I fully support TQ+ people incidentally, I'm good with people having whatever sexualities they want, identifying how they want, being proud of it. What I want is the tolerance to be an out and proud homosexual alongside them, and accepted in that as equally as I accept someone is trans.

But that doesn't happen, does it? Which is why I don't feel welcome at Pride. Which is why that flag is no longer a symbol to me of anything good but of actual oppression. Which is why I see death threats to people like me on Twitter, coming from the LGBT+ community claiming to speak for me and to be inclusive.

I was a bit surprised to find men claiming to be lesbians on FWR berating lesbians for failing to accept men as sexual partners. But - here we are.

Racism anywhere on the site should be called out. Opinions about whether we should be sterilising children and operating on healthy young people's bodies and whether people can change sex must be had - no matter how hard certain posters try to shut them down.
Advanced search is a useful tool to confirm whether a poster is a serial complainer about women being allowed a voice - or not.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/thousands-line-edinburgh-city-centre-27192588

I enjoyed this the other week.

Largest Pride attendance for Edinburgh ever. And so good to see so many women there, easily outnumbered men.

It's like talking to Professor Bloody Umbridge.

Isn't it just.

Again, the existence of one group doesn’t negate the existence of another.

Yeah you know what, am not really seeing any evidence of this other group. Outside of a few FWR posters 🤷‍♂️

I’m sure there are still bucketloads and bucketloads of exclusively same sex attracted people (ESSA for short) at Pride.

But are they allowed to celebrate the fact they’re ESSA at Pride?

Owen Jones has basically acknowledged that he knows he’s ESSA; I think we can all be sure he’s got no interest in getting to know a “man” with a vagina intimately.

But he says there’s no need to be open about that. It’s ok to feel that way but only if you don’t tell anyone or make a big thing of it. Because that would be hurtful to heterosexual people who might be attracted to you and would be upset that you wouldn’t consider them as partners.

So at the single biggest celebration there is for gay people, you mustn’t make a big thing about actually… being gay.

The discussion forum called 'sex and gender', where all threads discussing the impact of 'trans rights' on women and girls, was specifically created to hive off general discussions about the impact of 'trans rights' on women and girls out of the way of everything else, and you all of a sudden notice that the discussion on the board is about 'trans rights' and their impact on women and girls?

I'd give you a slow hand clap but really can't be arsed.

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Well said Alison. It's almost like a slowly slowly attempt to eventually shut these discussions down entirely

I'm a gay woman who is not attracted to 95% of other gay women, but funnily enough I do get it that others would find it strange if I marched in Pride carrying a banner saying as much and asserting my right to not sleep with 95% of them.

Funnily enough, they get that, because you know, we do understand the principles of consent.