FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

This is my last post on this topic and then I'm hiding all of this, and name changing, which I do every 2 weeks anyway for legal reasons.

By the end of last night (when I left thread), in my opinion, no-one cared about what they were actually saying (including myself, I had argued myself into circles and lost sight of my own point), I am deeply ashamed of myself for getting totally sucked into the whole thing (from my first post, my opinions haven't changed), and very, very angry, with myself, for ending up sharing deeply personal information in such a belittling (to myself) fashion.

All I have done for 2 days, is reinforce to myself, exactly why, I never post in FWR in the first place, I spent 2 days, trying to get my point across, tying myself in knots and getting nowhere, which is a real deja vu moment.

FWR is the way it is, it isn't going to change, so I am going to take my own advice and stay away from it, its not for me in its current format.

The end result of all of this is nothing will change, and I should never have wasted my emotions or energy trying.

Good luck with it HQ, because I dont think there is a solution.

didireallydoit look after yourself.

Chickens, they said that they were deleting, that they were sorry it stayed up so long, and that they were deleting it because 'much of it' had turned into a sustained attack on one poster.

I don't want all the radfems to feel forced to leave because of harassment. That's not welcoming is it. Do you hear that MNHQ?

Ps. MN radfems you are all ace

Ah, thanks Victor. No comment on what they're going to do about this whole shitstorm?

No one wants them to leave (for the billionth time)

They just want other posters to stop being driven off.

Take care, didi.

I have a copy of the thread but it was before the final comment was made by MNHQ. The thread went poof very quickly after that comment.

I actually think the thread should be re-instated. (Don't know how you feel about that dittany as the OP).

I'm always torn about attacking stuff - sometimes I think it is better deleted and sometimes I think it is better that it remains. In this case I think it should remain.

I think MN will be a poorer place without the RadFems. They make me think and examine issues from angles that would not otherwise have occurred to me. I only lurk on the Feminist Boards but I will be if they go. So please don't!

Hully, I mean this genuinely: you said to me that people wouldn't find radfems rude if they weren't rude.

Doesn't that apply to the posters that are leaving? Surely they wouldn't be leaving if they didn't feel they had to?

It can't apply to one and not the other, surely?

I have to confess that until this here fuckaroo I didn't even know what a rad fem was. I hadn't even considered the different political strands of feminism. I'm still trying to get my head around exactly where my rage at being second class should go. Because I do have rage. Long buried, long swallowed rage. Right back from when I had to have dolls and prams and I wanted chemistry sets and metal detectors. Back from when I had to help serve 'the Men' their meals first, and they had to have the biggest portions. Back from when I was patronised and petted and steered towards textiles at school instead of economics. That shit gives me bulgy eyeballs. Yet I have a brilliant DH and two wonderful DS's. And they aren't fuckwits. Damn it I need a target

I think Dittany is one of the bravest, most honest posters on MN. She is one of my favourite posters.

Dittany -

But since (as I think you said at one point) MNHQ isn't about to change the name of the section I think that you were using that thread as a rhetorical device to say that people who do the kind of stuff outlined in your bullet point should not feel comfortable posting there.

It is an honest question - do you think WW, Eclectic, Hmm, myself and the others in 'Category B' I have mentioned as well as folks in categories C and D should feel equally welcome posting views on the feminist board or not?

I guess you would tick me off as failing on 3,4,8 and 9 of your bullet points.

I'm glad you think that dittany. I didn't want to upset you with my view that the thread should be re-instated.

I think one thing we can all agree on is that personal attack is not to be encouraged on MN.

IMO deleting a whole thread like that, sends a message that people can get away with personal attack and not have to be responsible for their behaviour because the mess will be covered up for them when the thread goes 'poof'.

It sends the message that people can behave however they want and then go on as though none of it ever happened.

I am very very uncomfortable with that.

Mavis - you really think your exploration of feminism will involve ignoring women and calling them names?

I get that you might find the very presence of rules prescriptive. But I really doubt that in practice you would fall foul of any of the ones Dittany has posted.

Even the hairiest trucker MRA has their work cut out with that lot!